Rabie

As long as they don't remove features like they use to, I'm totally fine with the direction MV is taking. JavaScript is yay, Mac support is yay, browser based play is yay, mobile support is yay. Everything so far is yay.

Just throwing my opinion out there, but: I honestly don't see the need for veteran users to lock/unlock topics. It's fast, easy, and simple enough to just report it for closure. The administration on this site is generally great at getting the complete topics closed. Even when they don't, there's not too much use in closing a topic other than to mark it "Solved" which the OP can do just by editing the OP's Title. Besides, there are plenty of moderators around now with the recent dispatch of badges (albeit "local mods"). In essence, I think it would be a hefty amount of work for little productive result. EDIT: Still, if the workers want to work, by all means go through with it. I'm just against asking for it in the first place.

Maybe he means that it's gotten to the point that seeing a demo explains why the game looks so good in appearance: great idea, bad work ethic. <-- ?

This.

We already have a team of reviewers. I don't know what they focus on, and they may be busy with completed games as is, but they do work on demos too. Plus, they're already practiced in giving more insightful review. That's not going to solve the problem though. There are just so many "demos" for games that have such little effort put into them. It's so difficult to keep an open mind and still be rational while sorting through the sea of demo clones. There may be an issue with demos not receiving feedback, but it has more to do with the fact that the few who take the time to give feedback end up getting bogged down with so many. Then it just becomes degrading to put up with/grind through all of the lack-luster games with no appealing or unique features. Maybe I'm different though, I just quit playing demos in general. If someone suggests a demo to me, I'll give it a go no problem, and be honest with my opinion. But I'm not going to go looking for a likely waste of time.

You're very right, and I suffered many lashings for this vital error. I fixed it. I meant proper nouns. You can tell I'm not an english major.

It's a hard fact to face, but you as the game developer will always be closer and hold your story dearer to you than anyone else. There is rarely an exception to this. As such, you know your story in greater detail, and larger scope than anyone else. This isn't a problem, as a matter of fact, it's great! This is all to be expected, but you can't allow it to turn others away from your game. One easy way to turn those others away, is with Proper nouns! Proper nouns are great, they're what gives our story creativity, and originality. However, realize that your audience isn't as headstrong after being plopped into this world of yours as you may be. This is especially true when you drop a bucket of proper nouns on their head to become familiar with. Instead of informing the player that they just slayed a "Marked Tracer of the Herssilica Tribe from Nordswal" (no matter how obvious the meaning is to you), try informing them of the same information on a more general base: "You just slayed one of the best trackers from a very distinguished northern faction! How amazing!" Now, you don't have to completely remove the proper nouns, and I suggest you don't, as it will hinder their ability to recognize them later. Simply choose between your string of big words for the ones which mean the most in this situation, and remember that you can often let your player assume the more obvious facts: "That was the best Tracer in Nordswal! I'd be weary of his tribe if I were you, Herssilicans are said to hold a grudge." See what I did there? With colors? Remember that the words which need to stand out should be highlighted either with capitalization, color, or both. If you do, then even the hastiest speed-runner will have enough time to pick out the important gab from your plot dump. Of course, the more familiar your player becomes, the more lenient you can be with the proper nouns. If they've been wandering through your world for hours, they most likely have a feel for which names mean what. Especially if you've been using them correctly! Lastly, remember that length plays a large role in your audience's attention. It isn't easy to get them going on short bursts using strong dramatics. But keeping them looped in for a generous amount of game facts will be very tough. Try to cut long "walls of text" down to a manageable size. I've found the best way to test if your story is boring is on children. Next time a child, or a younger sibling of yours wants to hear a story, entertain them with a clean version of your latest work. If they get easily distracted, or don't seem to care, ask how the story should have gone. These kids are painfully honest, and it's a great resource for writers. Note that this also applies to the title of your game. It's hard for me to pick up a game with little more than an unrecognizable proper noun. Well I'm glad this helps clear up confusion on both ends of design!

So, I'm not exactly helping (as the topic is "Are you burnt out on demos?"), but I do feel like this is relevant to the subject. This is more related to the Topic Title ("The Bane of all RM existence") I think peoples' perspective of what a demo is has changed. It used to be a piece of the game, compromised of enough elements from the game to base a fair judgement of how the game will feel. Now, it seems to be thought of as "The first 10-30 minutes of your game". There's often so much plot dump starting off the game that this becomes mostly dialogue. If I wanted to read a picture book, I'd do so, but a demo should be exactly that, a demo. I want to demo the game-play (mechanics), visuals, soundtrack, and style of this game. Often times, I couldn't give a lick about the story. The popular game market has streamlined the use of story to capture the audience's attention and make them want the game to know the rest, and RM devs have a bad habit of over-selling the story in their game. I may just be different from everybody else, but I have always felt like story comes late in the line of priority. I want the mechanics, the structure, and the effect before I even think about the story. EDIT: Realize that I haven't played nearly as many demos as most other people claim to have. I have a folder of about 40 which I'm working on in my free time. But my feelings are based on what I have experienced. Obviously XD

I use imgur. Also, make sure to copy the picture's URL, not the website hosting the picture, only certain image hosting sites will redirect correctly to the image.

I think that a deeper problem lies here which is getting covered up. I apologize in advance for eating your time if you decide to read the entire post. Video Games are a medium unlike many others. With them, developers combine art, science, history, literature, and the unique feel of interaction. Very few people have vocations in all such areas. Still, video games get thrown down as a childish toy, or an addictive waste of time. The stereotypes and societal issues gaming has faced would seem daunting were it not for the even greater support it's gained from all of us: the gamers. I don't mean to stretch too far off topic, but understand that what I mean here is how much Video Games have lingered in the realm of children's entertainment to the eyes of professional society. Even with the current booming of industry around Gaming, the ideas which approach it seldom reach as far as artistic. Those who dare to place such high praise on the potential of gaming commonly get shunned out as immature or unrealistic. With the more recent explosion of the indie scene onto pop culture, gaming has felt a surge towards the "even you can do it" market. This has been a great and fortunate trend for the gaming culture; games like Super Meat Boy, Minecraft, Castle Crashers, and Dear Esther all hitting the stage front and center, even getting promoted by the industry, makes the overall gaming society a better place all in all. Sure, there are those of us who would like to see the art games die in a fire, but it would not be in the benefit of the whole. More artistic and unique ideas are being brought to the Video Game medium, and I believe it is the exact push we need. Still, there are some expected yet uninvited side-effects. With the success of these indie titles, gamers everywhere want to give their own inspiration, creativity, and ideas a run on the scene. However hardly any of them have acquired the skills necessary to flame their ideas in the forges of development. Even in teams, there are so many bars, hoops, and pits of lava to evade when developing a memorable gaming experience. Before the explosion of easy-access to high-quality development tools, these gamers were forced to wait until they had a title to get accepted onto a team for development. Even then, only small teams were given the opportunity to share concepts across the board. Industries like EA and Activision couldn't care less if a programmer thought the art style of the game didn't fit the mechanics at all. However, Enterbrain has given a simple tool to all those which can afford it. With the Steam sales bringing RPG Maker VX Ace below $30, it is more accessible and convenient for pc gamers now than ever before. Instead of seeking higher education in their fields, or the popularity to bring their own small creations to a large audience, these creative minds have flooded into the easy maker market, populating the online communities for Enterbrain's and other's game making engines. Though a majority of the populous realizes the scope of the engine, there are many who have fallen for the advertisements and believe they are truly baby steps from making an indie sensation one hit wonder... at least, so it seems. This is where I get to the truly on topic discussion of Demos. Although Enterbrain has been releasing editions of RPG Maker for over a decade now- and there was the RPG Tsukuru series before them- the engine has been "upgraded" and "upgraded" to promote user-friendly functionality. In the process, they have been decreasing easy access to the true mechanics, instead promoting the peripherals which grant small customization to the sub-mechanics which fuel the greater mechanic. At first glance, this may seem like a loss for the greater good, but I think that most people will quickly realize the severe loss of creativity this brings the developer. I may be stretching out on a limb here, but imagine if a clothing designer was restricted to making clothes which only fit one manikin. They would be given access to any materials or tools, but the end result had to fit that manikin. Plenty of unique appearances would make the scene, but the end result would only comfortably fit people with the same sizes as the manikin. Let's relate this to the engine. Developers without knowledge of the scripting language, or the library (the audience of the commercial) would be allowed to bring any material into their game, however they would be strictly set on what to use it on, and where they could use it. Taking this to the level of development, what is a concept all developers should understand when going about, creating a project? The mechanics are the slave of the idea. Your game concept trumps all, and if you fail to develop the idea on mechanics which feed your theme, you have failed as a designer. Think of a clothing designer who's idea is to make pants, but uses the tools, materials, and effort it does to make gloves. Only the most talented, artistic, and dedicated designers can work in such strict conditions, which is why of all the great projects we see across websites, few cross the bar of memorable gaming experiences. I don't mean to disapprove RPG Maker, I even mean to promote it, but I believe this is a strong underlying factor deciding the fate of most games developed solely on this engine alone. There are some obvious other factors in play which cause developers to neglect/abandon their project shortly after making it to the demo stage, but most of theme come from a lack of education. Anyone can tell you that it takes more than one person to make an amazing film, so why is it alright to promote individuals to try for amazing games on their own? Logically, this makes no sense. Looking back, literature was brought to the music medium through lyrics, music was brought to the film medium along with literature through soundtracks and plot. Now, film is being brought to video games through cut-scenes, visuals, and gameplay. We have only added more to the experience, yet we don't look for more from the developer? This comes back to the idea that people haven't seen Video Games as the strong medium they truly are until very recently. This can be blamed on the Uncanny Valley and also explains why even now, games which appeal to our more childish desires have been sought so strongly by the mass of non-"gamer" society. It's why the Wii over-sold the PS3 and X-Box 360, and it's why Nintendo isn't worried about this generation's console wars. Seriously, did it look like they cared how much Sony and Microsoft were dicking it out over the new consoles? I'm getting off topic again, but let me re-adjust to education. Gamers commonly base their gaming knowledge on the games they have played, news on gaming, and experiences they draw from gameplay. This knowledge is vital to making good games, but isn't everything a developer needs. A developer must take a different mindset when studying games to understand the connections within the game and game-to-player relationship. When game development is handed over to the players, they commonly bring nothing more to the table than unique visuals or ideas. Honestly, ideas aren't what to look for, I mean ask any gamer if they have an idea for a video game. On second thought, don't, most of you are plenty busy already with your own great ideas. With nothing more than what the player brings to draw from, these developers are often lost in what ways to bring the core concept of their work to the audience. Even when this core concept can be put through the mechanics provided by RPG maker, the developer's skill, devotion, and resources are all limitations on the project. This can often be whittled down to lazy developers who got bored of their own project, interested in a different one, or simply didn't have the time to finish it, but I believe there's much more to the growing trend in experimental games on these engines. I believe they are here for a greater good, but also here for the foreseeable future; they'll at least be here until developers find a way to teach these amateur-indie developers the basics of the trade within the provided engine. The demo project attached to RPG Maker 2 for the PS2, and access to the game's creation files showed players what it took to make a game of that scale, and gave examples to teach how those things were done. This is one of the ways I can think of which will show game developers some (not all) insight into the game development backstage. *Phew*, that was probably the biggest tangent I've ever gone on within a forum. I'm glad I did. If no one reads it, then no one cares, but I hope this clears up some confusion and inspires some people.

Nice to meetcha too,