Review: Liphidain: Dissonance of Darkness

[Ocedic 249]

Title: Liphidain: Dissonance of Darkness

Author: Tharis

Version: Demo 1.0

Review by: Ocedic

 

Note: This project has been updated since this review; this review may or may not reflect the current state of the game.

 

Introduction

 

Liphidain is a JRPG and the author's first project. It needs a lot of work, but there are a few redeeming qualities and the author shows promise.

 

 

Presentation

 

The game is heavily RTP based, but the author has thrown in a fair amount of custom art such as using Celianna's trees and Closet's facesets/charsets. Overall, the game has a consistent look, which as I've mentioned before is the most important thing graphically. Mapping wise, the game does an acceptable job. Some parts look a bit barren, like this:

 

 

In other parts, it seems like the author threw a lot of random objects on the ground to populate the environment, making things look messy and haphazard. The solution to both of these issues is to simply make smaller maps, which will also address a gameplay issue that I'll come to later. There are so many rooms and houses that are irrelevant to gameplay and story yet they exist to occupy space. The maps are simply too large, resulting in the author trying to fill the massive amount of empty space instead of letting the environments come naturally. However, the author clearly has an eye for aesthetics, and mapping is surprisingly robust for a creator's first project. The town looks well-proportioned and clean.

 

In terms of audio, it's rather forgettable. The town music brought back some RPG Maker 2000 memories; other than that none of the sounds or music really stuck out to me. What is there works, but like the graphics it doesn't help the game stand out.

 

Verdict: Can be better

 

Gameplay

 

This is where the game needs a lot of help in a number of aspects. The game is fairly frustrating both during combat and while exploring. I'm actually at a loss at where to start with battle issues. It makes me wonder if the author had playtested them, because the balance is insane. The first mandatory battle, for example, I simply lost. I have no options other than to defend as you start with no special skills, so I just attacked the guy over and over. Unfortunately, he evaded one attack and so he killed me, and that was it. There's a number of things wrong with this. For one thing, the player needs some kind of choice for this to be a game. I should be able to choose to use an ability or attack, for example, and weigh the cost and benefits of each action. And no, choosing to use a potion or not doesn't really count. Second, it's just bizarre that the first battle can be lost so easily. I almost gave up and quit right there because I was thinking if the first battle is so broken, wouldn't the rest of the fights be?

 

And unfortunately, they are. You can go on a side quest to clear a basement full of rats, but they hit you for 2/3rds for your health in one attack. Which means you can attack once, then you're basically screwed because you can either attack (and die,) defend or heal (and be hit for 2/3rds life again.) So that side quest is essentially impossible because of that. I'm all for challenging battles, but when the first enemy in the game two-shots you and is intended to be a lowly side quest enemy, it seems like the game has moved into the realm of being unfair. The battles and damage formulas need a serious overhaul to be playable, and I recommend giving the character at least one ability to start with.

 

 

Now, outside of battles the game really doesn't fare much better. I think I should first point out that you cannot sprint, and your speed is the default walking speed. Now that itself I don't mind so much, as I personally like to disable sprint so the player doesn't just blitz through the game like Sonic the Hedgehog. But the default speed is way too slow for this; it should really be sped up slightly. Also, this exacerbates the earlier problem of the maps being too big, as waddling around at turtle speeds is just painful torture.

 

Another issue is that the game is very obtuse as to objectives. I got lost many times at different points, not realizing where the game was trying to direct me towards. And all I was trying to do was complete a simple delivery quest. The game needs a quest log, or some kind reference to guide to the player. For example, the father gave me the delivery quest. If I talk to him again, he shouldn't say "Have you finished your deliveries yet?" but rather he should re-iterate what the quest was. Otherwise, your player can be stranded with no way to tell where to go and is forced to waddle around slowly until he or she stumbles across the next location (which is basically what I resorted to.) As a developer you know how to beat your game, but remember that your players don't have this luxury. It's much harder to have too much hand-holding as opposed to having too little information, so err on the side of ease.

 

And again, smaller maps and environments would help lessen this issue as well. Overall, the experience was fairly frustrating just to complete what was essentially a chore.

 

Verdict: Battles completely broken, exploration needs work

 

Story

 

The game begins with a surprisingly interesting introduction. You're introduced to a grand war being waged between what I assumed were angels and demons. The game then cuts to the present day and you start playing as a boy who is being raised by one of the angels (presumably to become a badass holy warrior or something and win the war against the demons.) The story abruptly slows to a crawl, and you go from epic celestial war to delivering groceries. The story is a little bit unoriginal, but I think there's enough there to be somewhat engaging. In terms of the story itself, there isn't much more to say as I didn't get too far into the demo. It didn't really stand out, but I guess I wasn't completely uninvested in it.

 

Some characters are well written and stand out, such as the father and crazy old man. Others seem very forced and even abrasive, like the female character you bump into. The main character himself also lacks a distinct voice. He seems to just react to everything going on around him, making him little more than a passive vehicle for the narrative.

 

I noticed that the author seemed to pay attention to polish in regards to the writing itself. However, there are some instances where this slips up:

 

 

Grammatical mistakes are a huge turn off in games, so make sure those are stamped out.

 

Verdict: Somewhat generic, decent character personalization with the exception of the two most important ones: the main character and his love interest

 

Recommendation

 

After realizing the impossible battle difficulty would hinder any progression, I had to stop. In its current state, I can't recommend this game. For an author's first game it's actually pretty well-done, and the writing is good enough to keep you interested if the gameplay wasn't so broken. I hope the author will polish it up and work on his weak points, as I think he has a feel for what makes good RPG's but needs more practice.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Ocedic

[Galv 1,387]

I really like the time you spent on the layout and adding screenshots in your reviews. They are also very helpful for the developer. Nice work

[Tharis 212]

Awesome! Simply loved this review! 

 

I had thought the entry to the game might be something of an issue. It's totally true that in my head I'm thinking, "hmm I know how to beat this so people probably don't need me to direct them" I like the recommendation of doing a bit more handholding at the begining. 

 

There is actually a field where you fight much easier lower level monsters and beef up a bit. What I think I will do is essentially force the player into a "side" quest to clear this field field first, before the fight with Dirold. The basment full of rats was intentionally done, as rats are closer to the level 4-5 range than level 1 (as a challange not intended for the lowest levels) so I suppose what I can do is have the character essentially warn the player of the danger before bounding in if under level 4 or if you have no other characters in your party by that point.

 

The battles are going to be rough, I won't lie and the battle system is a bit generic, for now. This will get major overhauls as I continue to shape the characters as youths to be essentially precursors to their older selves. Thank you for your review of this, I am very excited to get back to work and put some new events and quests into the game to help with the early balancing issues.

 

(If you want to proceed further into the game so you can get a deeper look into it, you can go get the knife from the Antiques store owner and the pot lid shield from the guy outside the garden who will direct you to killing bees... I will have him in the future get the player's attention between William's house and Mr. Whittham's place so that the player has a chance to get some meat on his bones... armored meat! before dusting up with Dirold.)

[+ Novem 344]

There is actually a field where you fight much easier lower level monsters and beef up a bit. What I think I will do is essentially force the player into a "side" quest to clear this field field first, before the fight with Dirold.

 

 

This is grinding. Don't use grinding, nobody likes it. It gets in the way, it's boring, and it's time consuming. Just balance the battles along the players primary path so that there is a natural difficulty progression to the game.

 

Also, this is something you can use the make the default battle system less bland (it's something I suggest to any and every game that uses the default battle system), insert Yanfly's Battle Engine Ace. It improves the functionality and makes the battle interface a lot cleaner.

[Tharis 212]

What I have planned should work out to benefit the player and add a little extra to the main character's appeal.

 

And I wouldnt actually say "no one" likes grinding, there are a lot of players that prefer grinding to other methods of leveling and most JRPGs are chalk full of it. There is a more natural curve to the game's leveling just not at level one.

 

 I understand that to get to that more natural curve of 3-15 that it will require some crutching at the begining. What will be added to provide this is to make a quest out of that field as a challange for level one with a single character. afterwards it will remain a grinding spot if the player feels they want to use it.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[Xephyr 6]

There is actually a field where you fight much easier lower level monsters and beef up a bit. What I think I will do is essentially force the player into a "side" quest to clear this field field first, before the fight with Dirold.

 

 

This is grinding. Don't use grinding, nobody likes it. It gets in the way, it's boring, and it's time consuming. Just balance the battles along the players primary path so that there is a natural difficulty progression to the game.

 

Also, this is something you can use the make the default battle system less bland (it's something I suggest to any and every game that uses the default battle system), insert Yanfly's Battle Engine Ace. It improves the functionality and makes the battle interface a lot cleaner.

 

 

 

 

 

Stop making these blanket statements where you complete trash traditional RPG elements and try to state that "no one likes them". You do this with random battles too. It's pathetic and makes you sound unbelievably ignorant to what traditional role-playing games are and what people actually enjoy. What nobody ACTUALLY likes is when you try and state your opinions as fact. Grow up.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Xephyr

[Tharis 212]

New Demo version availible on the Game's main page and on my Dev blog if anyone is reading this and would like to try it out for themselves. (this time being a lot less busted... and probably still busted in other spots... who knows?)

[+ Novem 344]

Stop making these blanket statements where you complete trash traditional RPG elements and try to state that "no one likes them". You do this with random battles too. It's pathetic and makes you sound unbelievably ignorant to what traditional role-playing games are and what people actually enjoy. What nobody ACTUALLY likes is when you try and state your opinions as fact. Grow up.

 

Grinding and random battles have been mostly phased out of modern gaming for a reason. They are needless and only detract from a games overall quality. Do you honestly enjoy grinding? Or would you rather continue along the games primary path without needless interruption? Do you enjoy randomly encountering enemies out of nowhere? Because that's completely unrealistic. Just because elements are traditional doesn't mean they are necessarily good.

 

Also, I never "trashed" them. So you don't make ignorant statements like this.

 

And I wouldnt actually say "no one" likes grinding, there are a lot of players that prefer grinding to other methods of leveling and most JRPGs are chalk full of it. There is a more natural curve to the game's leveling just not at level one.

 

What about methods of leveling that are actually fun? Grinding is boring, it can seriously hurt a games pacing, and there are much more effective ways other then constantly battling foes you've fought before a million times over. You should try and replace grinding as much as possible with a natural leveling curve and maybe even a few interesting side-activities or dungeons.

[Galv 1,387]

I feel if it is completely necessary that this discussion continue, it might be a good idea to start a new, more civilized one. While related to part of this topic, it is my opinion that it is leading away from commenting on the review as a whole.

[Xephyr 6]

Stop making these blanket statements where you complete trash traditional RPG elements and try to state that "no one likes them". You do this with random battles too. It's pathetic and makes you sound unbelievably ignorant to what traditional role-playing games are and what people actually enjoy. What nobody ACTUALLY likes is when you try and state your opinions as fact. Grow up.

 

Grinding and random battles have been mostly phased out of modern gaming for a reason. They are needless and only detract from a games overall quality. Do you honestly enjoy grinding? Or would you rather continue along the games primary path without needless interruption? Do you enjoy randomly encountering enemies out of nowhere? Because that's completely unrealistic. Just because elements are traditional doesn't mean they are necessarily good.

 

Also, I never "trashed" them. So you don't make ignorant statements like this.

 

 

 

 

Random battles have been phased out of modern gaming?! Perhaps you should educate yourself on one of the most successful and profitable role-playing series to ever grace video gaming and the fact that it's still going on as strong as ever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokémon

 

Let's also not forget Final Fantasy 1-10, Dragon Quest 1-8, and plenty of recent cult classic-type games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Galaxy)

 

The fact that you DON'T enjoy grinding leads me to ask why you're even on this forum. This is a forum about designing jRPGs, and the entire core of their being is having a party of quirky characters that are meant to become extremely powerful. I absolutely love grinding, because it makes me feel like my characters are getting much stronger, which is the entire point of the gameplay in games of this genre.

 

Further, a certain recently released game that is basically the greatest jRPG since Final Fantasy 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni_no_Kuni) was recently released that's basically impossible to complete without grinding.

 

Are you going to try and tell me that nobody likes that game because grinding is a requirement? Is the game "bad" because in it exists an age-old concept?

Edited February 26, 2013 by Xephyr

[Tharis 212]

Well I will have to say. Not to jump into this arguement betwixt the two of you. This is an SNES style J-RPG (meaning if you were to have played this in 1995 if would fit right in) so the fact that other games now have phased grinding as an option out is largely irrelavent. On top of that there are still several RPG Genres where grinding is quite useful. The option giving you a chance to get a competitive edge against the game's engine or potentially other players. I agree that this can be taken care of in many cases, with optional quests but thats just grinding of a different sort.

 

Though to be fair I didn't feel like you were Trashing anything (if that means anything to you). However, had you read my entire entry originally I had already stated that I was going to make that area into a quest. And as is the case in any J-RPG it will be the player who decides to either grind or not I won't force them to grind unless they are running from every fight and find themselves unable to complete the basic quests of the game at the point they find themselves in, but really that's them forcing themselves to grind. 

[+ Novem 344]

This is a forum about designing jRPGs...

 

No it is not, what are you talking about? This is a forum for discussing RPG Maker VX Ace. This is not called "The JRPG design" forum. I just find it funny how you continue to call me "ignorant" when you are making blatantly stupid comments such as this.

 

You should educate yourself on one of the most successful and profitable role-playing series to ever grace video gaming and the fact that it's still going on as strong as ever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokémon

 

Poke'mon is still based on a formula for game design that was imagined years ago with very little re-invention between then and now. Besides, Poke'mon isn't fun because of random encounters, Poke'mon is fun because of it's brilliant collection aspects and great sense of progression. But even so, a lot of the most hardcore Poke'mon fans (like me for instance!) are even admitting that it's starting to become stale.

 

 

Let's also not forget Final Fantasy 1-10, Dragon Quest 1-8, and plenty of recent cult classic-type games (http://en.wikipedia....ki/Rogue_Galaxy)

 

 

I dislike Final Fantasy, but either way you are using examples that are interesting and fun because of everything but these minor annoying gameplay elements. Also, they are called cult-classics for a reason. Hardly anybody has played them, and they are usually fun because of something unique they do with their game design or story, not because they specifically used traditional RPG elements.

 

 

...and the entire core of their being is having a party of quirky characters that are meant to become extremely powerful...

 

 

Oh, because suddenly traditional RPG elements are necessary for this to happen? Either way, I am done with this conversation. You are going way off-topic with your blatant disrespect, ignorance, and vague insults.

 

 

The option giving you a chance to get a competitive edge against the game's engine or potentially other players. I agree that this can be taken care of in many cases, with optional quests but thats just grinding of a different sort.

 

This is the only use for grinding that I actually agree with. Dedication to the game should provide rewards and make the game easier.

 

 

...already stated that I was going to make that area into a quest.

 

 

This is a good idea. You may consider this "grinding of a different sort", but it's certainly more interesting then combat for the sake of combat.

 

 

And as is the case in any J-RPG it will be the player who decides to either grind or not I won't force them to grind unless they are running from every fight and find themselves unable to complete the basic quests of the game at the point they find themselves in, but really that's them forcing themselves to grind.

 

 

I would actually say a lot of JRPG's force grinding on the player. Even, as much as I love it, Poke'mon does this by making the leveling curve along the main path impossible to maintain unless you fight nearly every random Poke'mon you come across. Often, I end up beating the Elite Four through pure use of items and a thousand retries.

 

Regardless of that though, grinding should never be necessary to complete a game. If your game does use random encounters, then of course running from nearly every one is forcing themselves to grind. But either way, these random encounters should never be so frequent as to become intrusive. It's all about striking a good balance between progress and combat. It's really all about making sure your pacing is intact, so that the game doesn't get bogged down in this grinding which tends to make them hard to get through.

[Xephyr 6]

 

No it is not, what are you talking about? This is a forum for discussing RPG Maker VX Ace. This is not called "The JRPG design" forum. I just find it funny how you continue to call me "ignorant" when you are making blatantly stupid comments such as this.

RPG Maker is designed for making jRPGs, quite obviously. I'm not sure how it's possible to be more clueless than this...?

 

 

Poke'mon is still based on a formula for game design that was imagined years ago with very little re-invention between then and now. Besides, Poke'mon isn't fun because of random encounters, Poke'mon is fun because of it's brilliant collection aspects and great sense of progression. But even so, a lot of the most hardcore Poke'mon fans (like me for instance!) are even admitting that it's starting to become stale.

Brilliant collection aspects that are impossible without random encounters. Thanks for proving my point <3

 

  

I dislike Final Fantasy, but either way you are using examples that are interesting and fun because of everything but these minor annoying gameplay elements. Also, they are called cult-classics for a reason. Hardly anybody has played them, and they are usually fun because of something unique they do with their game design or story, not because they specifically used traditional RPG elements.

Final Fantasy 1 starts by throwing you in a field next to a town. In said town, the king tells you to go north and kill Garland. It's impossible to kill Garland without grinding several levels. This example from this game, the game that literally is the only reason this forum exists if you trace back in time far enough, is what makes it so magical after all this time. You just get dropped in this field and have to do battle with all these goblins and make yourself stronger and stronger. It stands the test of time wonderfully.

 

Oh, because suddenly traditional RPG elements are necessary for this to happen? Either way, I am done with this conversation. You are going way off-topic with your blatant disrespect, ignorance, and vague insults.

Without random encounters and without grinding, your experience is not unique. Your characters will develop exactly the same as anyone else's will. You won't ever have the ability to gloat that you reached an extremely high level before a tough boss and were able to smash it. So yes, elements like this are completely necessary for traditional RPG experiences. Also, I'm getting called disrespectful, ignorant, and insulting from the guy that barged into this thread uninvited with this statement:

 

This is grinding. Don't use grinding, nobody likes it. It gets in the way, it's boring, and it's time consuming. Just balance the battles along the players primary path so that there is a natural difficulty progression to the game.

 

Yeah lol ok 

 

 

 

I would actually say a lot of JRPG's force grinding on the player. Even, as much as I love it, Poke'mon does this by making the leveling curve along the main path impossible to maintain unless you fight nearly every random Poke'mon you come across. Often, I end up beating the Elite Four through pure use of items and a thousand retries.

You can't beat Pokemon without resorting to those tactics? Are you honestly THAT bad at video games? Whenever I play Pokemon I make it a point to have basically the worst team possible and I still breeze through the game. I mean come on.

 

The point is that you're a prick and you're trying to force your opinions of how RPG games should play onto people. You tried to do it to my game even. Which is funny, because most reviews indicate my game is better than yours anyhow. Have a nice day.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Xephyr

[Tharis 212]

Gentlemen, I think its fair to say that this discussion is a little more hostile than it should be. Also it's largely in the wrong place.

 

Xephyr, I appreciate your passion for traditional J-RPGs as they are a favorite of mine. However, I think that this is one of those scenarios that just comes down to opinion. We have over come that dilema through the discussion. Obrusnine did not mean to offend, he had an opinion that I took to consideration, even if I don't fully agree with it, and thats the end of that. I'm sure like most people here we all want to make the best content possible, so its quite necessary for us to take in as many opinions as possible as well, even if we don't utilize them all. That way you can gague what to add and what to exclude from your game, honing in on your more precisely targeted audiance.

 

As you seem to be a fan of the Traditional J-RPG, I invite you to give mine a test. See how it goes, there have been some updates that allow for a much smoother experience in gameplay than when Ocedic wrote this review. So a lot of the problems he mentioned have been addressed.

[Galv 1,387]

So someone said something on the internet someone didn't agree with and turned into an argument.
 
Let's take a moment to view the Forum Rules.
Believe it or not, what people say are opinions even if they sound like fact. (Yep. Guess what? That's my opinion)

@Xephyr - You've said a few things I believe to break these rules. If you can't keep it civil, please don't say it.

No more replies about this argument in this thread. If you want to continue to discuss random encounters in games (In a civil manner without the insults) then start another topic.

[+ Novem 344]

 Obrusnine did not mean to offend, he had an opinion that I took to consideration, even if I don't fully agree with it, and thats the end of that. I'm sure like most people here we all want to make the best content possible, so its quite necessary for us to take in as many opinions as possible as well, even if we don't utilize them all. That way you can gague what to add and what to exclude from your game, honing in on your more precisely targeted audiance.

 

Exactly. You can't make a game that will appeal to everyone, but considering everyone's point of view will help you make a better game that caters to all audiences whether or not it is targeted at any single one.

 

Believe it or not, what people say are opinions even if they sound like fact. (Yep. Guess what? That's my opinion)

 

My opinion with this is that I concur,