What's Your Weakpoint?

[��� 53]

Huh'kay, so there's been a couple posts. Some answers were a surprise, but still most seem to reflect what I think might be the RM communities biggest weakness; and that (to me) is a lack of resources. Particularly in the graphics department.

 

 

Middle school was the first time I was introduced to RPG Maker (either 2000 or 2003 at the time) and it wasn't till about four years ago that I had the idea to try my hand at the program again. I had just finished watching a video of Kojima's lecture at GDC '09 and was brimming with inspiration. Thinking back on middle school, I suddenly saw a hidden potential in RPG Maker. A program that before, -even in my youth- I never took too seriously. The idea of making a video game before always seemed unrealistic to me because I just never understood code. Art and ideas I could provide for myself, but programming would be my biggest flaw...except maybe not with RM.

 

I downloaded the free trial of VX and began to see if what I thought might actually be possible; that on my own, I could create a game with stunning 6th gen graphics and rich 4th gen gameplay. I could, and I did....for about a month. (WOMP)*

 

Fast forward a few years and we all pretty much know this to be true.

 

 

Back to my point...

 

Like all of us, in middle school I started with recoloring, tweaking, and frankenspriting the resources RM and the community had to offer. Coming back for the third time, I noticed not much has changed. I see good writers, creative ideas, genius coders, etc...but I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the lack of visual content is really holding back the community. 

 

There are some people who have really taken Enterbrain's resources to the next level and created some pretty spectacular visuals in their games.  Also awesome, there have been some who've donated their own material to the community by creating premade characters and animations. Altogether though, the pool hasn't got that much bigger and everything still kinda looks...the same. And I think that's where RM sometimes gets a bad rep. 

 

 

What do you think about...err...what I think? And in case you agree, what solution can you imagine for the community to finally overcome this obstacle?

 

* That's another story for another time.

Edited April 8, 2013 by TRICKSTERLv3

[Deej 19]

Mapping large cities.

 

For some reason, they always appear so blank and lifeless, or are filled with too many details.

 

But for some reason, I can do field/exterior maps just fine.

 

Agreed. This is one of the most annoying things..

 

 

 

@TRICKSTERLv3

 

Your post just now.. I went back to read through the posts.. But there weren't that many about sprites and graphics..I'm confused as to how you came to that conclusion.. And are you saying RM communities (As in more then just this one) that have a bad rep because of low resources? You can't exactly expect people to create master pieces for the people to use for free..

Edited April 8, 2013 by Deej

[Bunni89 85]

@ Tigerbite: Thank you! That's a good idea and I think I'll try it!

 

@Trickster:

I'm also confused where that conclusion came from, it sounds more like your opinion than anything anyone in this thread has said. Lol you didn't have to preface it with "Gosh, I think you're all gonna agree..", you're allowed to have your own opinion, dude! XD

I do actually agree that lack of resources is a problem, but not necessarily one that people see as a personal failing. Many people I've seen on this forum are able to make graphics or tell a good story without them, it just sucks that the lack of varied resources means that nobody can be very original unless thier skillset happens to be "Artist". Aka.. overall artist. *deep and prolonged sigh* The bigger problem is that there's SO MUCH that you have to do if you want a fully visually unique game, and a lot of it is overlooked and not provided by resource makers.

Like.. I'm an artist. I can draw charries and make overworld sprites. I sure as hell can't do tilesets, windowskins, battlebacks, animated battlers... and I doubt there's many people who actually CAN make the art for EVERY part of thier project. This is why it sucks that there's limited resources, even if you're a person who does have some artistic skill. Hardly anyone can say "my weakpoint is making it look good", it isn't a problem where the fault lies purely at the feet of the creator.

*sigh* And it's not a lack of resources, really. It's a lack of variation. There's a million RTP characters and forest tilesets but you're screwed for modern day areas and obscure stuff like sound effects. I'd say "making it easy to make a complete project" is the weakpoint of the community and the program itself XD

[Vincent 27]

When I first started off, I was bad at pretty much everything but writing. Hastily made maps, stock music and visuals, and three-turn battles galore. Even my early projects had iffy narratives. Over time I acquired a stronger writing skill, level design that works, and recently slight experience at custom tunes. Playing Persona 3 and 4 vastly increased my design for battles (especially bosses), as apparently I absorbed nearly nothing from Final Fantasy battles. I still majorly lack the ability to make custom visuals or custom scripts. My designs get lost in translation from mind to mouse, and I am too lazy to learn a language. Other than that, my capabilities continue to expand.

 

It greatly helps to play a large variety of games to take in what's good and bad so you can mix and match stuff together for your own games.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Vincent

[Dark Horseman 93]

Trickster pretty much resounds the sentiments I have. The reason why it's so hard to stand out with an rpgmaker game is everyone has to rely on similar resources.

 

While a great deal of people share their resources, a great deal more spend an immense amount effort making graphics exclusive to their game. And anything that's decent and shared end up being used by hundreds of rpgmaker game, e.g. Valkyrie Stories (how many times have you seen Himura's facesets?) Being candid, it's hard for me to play RPGMaker games now because it looks too similar regardless of story or mechanics. When I run into an RPGMaker game with art I've never seen before, I get hooked very easily as long as the rest of the game isn't awful (and it's usually these games that are the most well done because they don't want to put the art to waste).

[��� 53]

Your post just now.. I went back to read through the posts.. But there weren't that many about sprites and graphics..I'm confused as to how you came to that conclusion.. And are you saying RM communities (As in more then just this one) that have a bad rep because of low resources?

 

"I have zero audio ability." -Ocedic  

"Maping and editing portraits are my weakpoints" -Tharis  

"Balancing and pixel art are my weak points " -Sgt Twilight Sparkle 

"That's why I feel for RPGMaker games you have to stress your talent at writing a good story or become great at art" -Dark Horseman

 and most recently "I sure as hell can't do tilesets, windowskins, battlebacks, animated battlers." -Bunni89

 

Remember I started out with resources as a whole. Including my own opinion 46% of the posts so far have this in common to some degree. 50% if you I really wanted to cheat and include Tigerbite's "It's more like what isn't my weakpoint?"

 

 

 

I'm also confused where that conclusion came from, it sounds more like your opinion than anything anyone in this thread has said. Lol you didn't have to preface it with "Gosh, I think you're all gonna agree..", you're allowed to have your own opinion, dude! XD

 

"And in case you agree, what solution can you imagine for the community to finally overcome this obstacle?" -Myself

 

No "Gosh, I think you're all gonna agree" there. Let's play nice guys. Let's focus more on the discussion than trying to nitpick the newbies posts ~ â™¥

 

 

 

I do actually agree that lack of resources is a problem, but not necessarily one that people see as a personal failing. Many people I've seen on this forum are able to make graphics or tell a good story without them, it just sucks that the lack of varied resources means that nobody can be very original unless thier skillset happens to be "Artist"...This is why it sucks that there's limited resources, even if you're a person who does have some artistic skill. Hardly anyone can say "my weakpoint is making it look good", it isn't a problem where the fault lies purely at the feet of the creator...It's a lack of variation. There's a million RTP characters and forest tilesets but you're screwed for modern day areas and obscure stuff like sound effects.

 

Yeah, it does suck and again, yes, there are a lot of those who have made great games using the same resources we've all been given from the start. As far as the originality, I have to disagree a little. From what I've seen even just recently, Galv has created a look and feel unique to Pirate Rush in spite of using the same materials that pretty much everyone else does. Where all being handed lemons here, and there's a lot to be made of lemons. Think of it a little like Iron Chef and today's special ingredient is 8-bit sprites. 

 

I don't think the individual creator is at fault either. I know I asked for everyone's personal weakness, but I had always intended to view it as the whole groups. 

 

And it's great that there are users who've given the community something to work with by donating their own resources, but as awesome as it is, I often can't help but think it's like giving a man a fish. Instead of getting lemons, we're given lemon merinque pie, lemon bars and limeade. Like you said, there's not a lot of variety between what's out there and (continuing with the food theme) we could really use some apples, oranges, and maybe even a carrot to work with. I haven't exactly been keeping up with myself here, so some of this might not be making much sense. I'll be sure to elaborate on this later in another post.

 

 

 

And are you saying RM communities (As in more then just this one) that have a bad rep because of low resources?

 

When I speak about the RM community, I'm actually thinking on a much broader scale than just this forum. I include every site, forum, group and individual associated with RM. Sorry, I wasn't more clear on that before. And I didn't mean any disrespect when I wrote 'bad rep'. I just feel (even despite RPG Maker's more recent popularity) people still look at RM and it's community with contempt. Like it or not, the community is stuck in a stereotype of "all the games look the same", "play one, play them all", etc...

 

...I don't know. Excuse me while I suddenly end my post. I need a break... ✖ï¹âœ–;

Edited April 9, 2013 by TRICKSTERLv3

[Dark Horseman 93]

lol, actually I disagree with you there.

 

The RM community is the best game-related community I've ever come across on the internet. There's no flaming, people are always willing to help, and no one is in competition with each other - it's like a group of hobbyists hoping for everyone else to come out on top.

 

If you want a community full of contempt, try posting in League of Legends or gamefaqs.

[��� 53]

No, the RM community has always been helpful and friendly to work with in my experience, and I'm sure anyone who's ever lurked this forum or another would agree. What I meant near the end of my post is that those on the outside look at the users of RM and the projects they churn out as...well, what I said. Man...as far as understanding goes, I'm on a real losing streak here.

 

Edit:
 

Mapping large cities.
 
For some reason, they always appear so blank and lifeless, or are filled with too many details.
 
But for some reason, I can do field/exterior maps just fine.

 
Have you thought about trying a more 'up close' perspective when mapping your city? For instance, instead of having the whole city drawn out on one map where the town is 100% available to the player, you break it down it into 'districts'? That might be a good way to avoid those big empty gaps and also help keep your detail under control. 

 

For example

 

 

My weakness is TOO MANY IDEAS! I get idea's every second, then I start making the project, then I make another one, then I have a different idea. Too many idea's and not enough time/energy patience to do them.

 

 

Sounds like you could really use a notebook(s). I used to have the same problem. Having a notebook to write everything down can help keep everything and is a good way to stay focused on one project. If ever I have an idea for another one of my projects, I simply jot it down in it's designated spot and get right back to my main focus. 

 

It also makes a good reminder and motivator having it beside my desk at all times. 

Edited April 9, 2013 by TRICKSTERLv3

[RetroExcellent 369]

I realize this discussion is pretty much over, but I thought I would join in. I would say that my biggest weakness is the inability to focus on any one task., I love learning how to do more and more parts of a project, but then I focus so much on learning that new skill that I get burnt out,

 

What I mean is, I started as a writer...taught myself how to event extremely well, wrote some tutorials, made some epic events, got bored and have moved onto spriting. I'm doing rather well in that area now, but I'm slowing down and am losing steam on making sprites, so now I'm starting to look into coding.

 

I just can't seem to be satisfied with any one task, but I also do not want to work alone on my projects, does that make sense?

[+ Dark Influence 251]

Makes sense Shaddow, I'm satisfied with being a writer myself.

 

Other than the mapping thing I mentioned earlier my other weakness is probably my constant automatic self-doubt thoughts, I always see my own work as terrible and judge it badly in general and I haven't a clue why.

 

Oh well, this discussion could go on a while anyway.

[amerk 1,122]

That would also be my weakness. I spend way too much time checking out resources, listening to songs and writing a spreadsheet of each song I like and how they can be used, learning to use Photoshop to edit/recolor tilesets, checking out new software that can help me with my game, and before long I've wasted too much time learning new things than practicing what I already know. That's really the catch, though. It's much easier to have ideas planned for your game before you begin building your project, rather than trying to implement them later, but you really can't know exactly how many of which ideas you will actually use until you begin designing your project.

[Laura Yeah Right 25]

My biggest weakpoint is actually finishing stuff. I have so many ideas and I don't write them down. They get lost the moment I want to. The idea for my game in that subforum isn't nearly as expansive as it was in my head. The original idea isn't even there anymore. It got expanded and changed so much I can't even remember the original version. I should write down more. The fear I have with my idea is actually the controversiality (is that even a word?!). I want to break some taboos. We're not living in the 1900's anymore, but I still get the idea people won't like it when it's stated that some of the characters are gay. (and yes, they are)

(and the acceptance of gay people IS a touchy subject, I know. I guess we Dutch people are among the most tolerant in the world)

 

I can do artwork and stuff, just not spriting. I'm getting the hang of creating tilesets, even when they're just for parallax mapping.

I may be a bèta, but coding is so NOT my thing. I know how to code a font and such, but that's where it ends.

[��� 53]

There's nothing wrong with homosexual themes. I've even seen a few successful Kickstarter's that were games specifically geared toward the gay community. I wouldn't worry about offending anyone. If someone has a problem with homosexual characters in your game, that's their loss. 

 

Acceptance of the gay community is on a pretty speedy rise. Don't let haters change you or your game. And definitely don't change your game for haters.

[Deej 19]

Who cares even if it wasn't accepted. Do what you want, people will like it or not, either way. You'll never have a game that everyone will like, may as well make something you enjoy creating.

[charlesthehurst 691]

First off, there's nothing wrong with homosexual themes (I should know...) and like Deej said, you should create the game you want.

 

Back on topic, resources are a definite lack, and that can't be denied.

 

Back even more on topic,  my biggest weakness would have to be my scatter-brained way of doing things.  First I'll work on the story, then the graphics, then the events, then the story, and I'll jump around anywhere.  I can't seem to focus on one thing at one time.  Too many ideas, not enough brainpower to prioritize them all...XP

[Radiant Arin 412]

I always want to add on that actually finishing a project of mine takes a lot more work because I want to immediately rush to my next project, and then never go back to update the finality of my original game that I was working on.

[+ Titanhex 284]

Jack of all trades means I have few weak points. My only one is audio. Can't do audio to save my life.

[+ Dark Influence 251]

I have a tendency to forget what I was doing when I do something else even if it's related to what I was doing beforehand.

 

Example: When I focus on working on something and then see something else which needs work done on it, I go do that and completely forget about what I was doing a moment ago, I do eventually remember it after about 2-3 days though which is usually far too late.

 

My memory is just generally terrible really.

[��� 53]

I get easily distracted with other project ideas, but I'm sorta surprised how people admit to dropping a project with such ease. Why don't people commit to one project more often?

 

Also, I seriously recommend you guys keeping a project notebook, it can make a good anchor in case you begin to slip away. 

[Dark Horseman 93]

Because committing to something that takes so much effort makes you lose interest eventually - and you just make games for fun. That and the fact that after committing hundreds of hours, you eventually come up with better ideas and become a better developer. So looking back, it almost seems like your previous work is embarrassing. Honestly, you really need to form teams with other people to ensure something has an increased chance of being finished.

 

I'm sure the number of dropped or unfinished RPGmaker games goes well over the made up figure of 90%.

[��� 53]

I could see that. You would think though, that they could just go back over what they already started and polish it up with everything new they've learned. Similarly to Phil Fish, who went back and retouched everything once he realized how much his pixel art improved. I can understand the reasoning behind just having fun. 'Fun' is fun, but 'Done' is better than 'Perfect'.

 

Edit:

 

Might just be me, but I don't see many people teaming up. Uncommon event?

Edited April 11, 2013 by TRICKSTERLv3

[Dark Horseman 93]

Well, you make games because you want to tell your story / show off your game to other people. It's tremendously rare to find someone else who doesn't mind compromising. Would you be willing to commit 400 hours over the course of a year to meet someone else's deadlines for free? Not unless you respected that person tremendously or felt their story is worth your time - and most people aren't serious enough to take this hobby that far. But yeah, the biggest weakness of just about everyone is motivation. 

[Tigerbite 36]

If you're looking for help or a team, the best place to look is most likely anywhere except a rpgmaker forum.  On my first project back in 2008, I was lucky enough to scoop up an artist, a spriter, and a story writer.  But even then, those guys went MIA after a couple months.  Motivation these days is hard to find, even more so when there's no money behind it, fueling it.

[+ MurgianSwordsman 36]

My weakness in terms of that, is that I'm a bit of a yes-man, and do things just because.

 

However, I'm currently busy working on a project with someone as part of the Duality team as an artist, which I joined upon a whim, really.

[Tharis 212]

Well this is just my 2 bits that I am throwing out here. But It appears like the real weakness of the community at large is the "Lone Wolf" mentality I suffer from it myself. T-Hex put out there that he is a Jack of all trades and therefore feels like not much holds him back. However to point out that the majority of game designers hone in on one or two spesific aspects of development and then tend to loose their way on either getting organized (because they feel like something else needs to be worked on) or they get swallowed up in trying to perfect one aspect of the game whilst letting other parts slip. Then, they think "well this isn't the way I saw it in my mind." and it really drains their motivation to finish.

 

And it's a hard solution, because you'd think the answer might be simple -people should just work together-, but in actuality it's that you have a full group of people who all want to all be Alpha's and you really do need several people working to support a project who are okay with being in a beta (support role) position if you want things to turn out looking at least somewhat professional and not take 3 years to put together.