Monster Hunter Logan Redux

[Wren 179]

Well, any help/advice on this (using fewer scripts to achieve what all of these are doing) would be appreciated, I am completely unfocused and unmotivated since I take a look at all the stuff I have and have to do and then get daunted and find something besides rpgmakervxace to do.

 

I guess if I took one thing and made that my next step and finished that and then found another I could make progress again, but even deciding what to do next is hard.

 

Maybe I should go ahead and work on my pixel art for my additional icons I want.  I can actually do that without having the project open at all, just gimp and my icon sheet.

 

I need various recolors of the DS DLC icons for different material weapons and armor, like taking one sword and making it copper, iron, silver, mithril, etc.  Same thing with armor.  I have about 40 I need to make, which isn't too bad.  I guess I can also go ahead and make icons for the raw materials in case I want to add in crafting of weapons and armor since I'll have the icon sheet right there anyway.

 

Sure, let's set that as my next immediate goal and checking this for any advice on which scripts to use.  Hopefully you guys (and gals) will help me out with specific advice on which scripts to use.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice or script solution ideas.

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Here, if I'm allowed to:

 

Final Fantasy IX (a.k.a. the Last Playable Final Fantasy) had ONE icon for swords, ONE for daggers, ONE for swallows, as they call that double sword (dunno why) ONE for robes, ONE for armors (even a linen curiass and a full-plated armor share the same icon) and it was a fantastic game.

 

In my humble opinion, you're just adding weight to your load with these icon creations. But of course, it would look nice.

 

Another thing is: answer to yourself if you need the parameters sheet. Or if you need enemy levels at all - you already have a good deal of complexity for the battles. Synchronized battlers are already a lot of work. You still have to deal with large excel tables, a script for enemy levels, a script for individual exp, a script for EXP based on level, etc. I suggested Yanfly's script over Hime (in this specific case!!) because Yanfly's use an intelligent progression that can be set up in the script configuration, working for all the enemies, but it also allows you to customize each enemy with notetags. The point here is not to discuss "the best script", but the one which will make your life easier.

 

Will you use the relationship window? Having a relationship system for the sake of having it, without consequences for the player in the form of more story depth seems weird. I'm only touching this subject because I always read about your battle engine, but you seldom (or never) mentioned the relationship system. So it seems of little importance for those who are following this game.

[Wren 179]

Okay...

 

If I lose the relationship system and the enemy/actor levels and level difference xp system that would seriously decrease the stuff I have to keep up with.  The only problem is I'd have to decide who Logan's love interest is instead of the player and actually write it in for only one of the girls in town.  When I put it that way it makes Logan seem much less like a womanizer....

 

I may have to put up a vote and have you guys decide who the love interest is, because I sorta like them all as options, which is why I set them up this way...

 

But yeah, if I take out those scripts and systems I reduce the development workload a bunch.

 

I'll ponder this and see if I want to ditch those scripts/features/systems.  Thanks for the advice!

[+ Sughayyer 163]

When I put it that way it makes Logan seem much less like a womanizer....

 

Not really. You can make him a womanizer because he is in fact unsure about his feelings/afraid to hurt himself and that's why he keeps that distance towards his real love interest. This can be explored SO MUCH in the story!! You can also set up a side quest for him to be able to decalre himself and win her heart.

Of course, that's my oppinion, I may be speaking rubbish right now since it's a bit late...

[Wren 179]

 

When I put it that way it makes Logan seem much less like a womanizer....

 

Not really. You can make him a womanizer because he is in fact unsure about his feelings/afraid to hurt himself and that's why he keeps that distance towards his real love interest. This can be explored SO MUCH in the story!! You can also set up a side quest for him to be able to decalre himself and win her heart.

Of course, that's my oppinion, I may be speaking rubbish right now since it's a bit late...

 

Well, the relationship scene had like 7 or 8 girls set up.

 

Item Shop girl

Maid at Inn

Runic Monk widow

Princess at the castle

Head Maid at Castle

Fellow Monster Hunter Guild member

Bunnygirl Waitress at Pub

Mysterious Runic Knight lady

 

So if I remove the system I'd get to write an actual scripted romance, but then the impact of all the ones I don't pick, their stories and impact to the plot are reduced.  I'd lean towards making it not the monk, hunter, and knight just because they would be playable party members, but I do like the knight and monk.... gah, see, so hard to have to pick now.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Wren

[Wren 179]

Okay, I did decide to yank some scripts but now I have to learn the inns and out of Tsukihime's Effect Manager so I can figure out how to arrange the weakness and counter system.

 

 

So now there isn't a relationship or bestiary or crafting systems, and I took out the enemy levels and parameters.

 

I also set up a poll to get some help on deciding who to write in as Logan's love interest in the game.

 

I also updated the original post and removed the features that are no longer present and updated the credits section.

 

***Edit***

I went ahead and made some screenshots of the characters in question since it isn't the actual graphical resources I'm posting it should be okay!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2014 by Wren

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Y'know, I've been thinking... he should really stay with the single mother.

This is against what I voted, but I suddenly developed that oppinion (I'm just posting it here because my vote was different).

[Wren 179]

Well, I'm still trying to sort out the scripts needed to make the battle system easily implemented, so I am a few weeks/months away from actually writing anything.

 

What I am thinking is if I can set up battle reactions and use effects and conditional common events, I can set up a system where instead of using 6-18 troop event pages I can handle everything with common event calls triggered by battle reactions which check against the elements used in the attacks.

 

On a side note, I was thinking of making a major shift in the lore, and using something called 'mist' as a plot element.

 

The mist comes at night and on cloudy days, it is what the monsters of the world come from, they materialize out of mist, and the runic magic of the magestrum protects areas from the mist, keeping the area mist free and thus monster free.

 

I also need to make or convert sprites to use for all monster types to be used to start battles as well as finish up the icon sheet.  So I have tons and tons of work to do on this project.

 

Again, if anyone has comments, help, or even wants to team up on this project, please reply below or in PM.

[+ Sughayyer 163]

I cant do graphics, and I'm running low on time, but if you give me enough info (or maybe a link to tje project) I can try to help with the battle mechanics/reaction thing

[Wren 179]

Thanks Sug.

 

Quick question, do you have the DS and DS+ premium DLC packs?

[+ Sughayyer 163]

No, I don't, unfortunately.

[Wren 179]

Okay, that means I'll have to set up a dummy project with default graphics.  I'll try to have this set up before Saturday, very busy at work lately and it pretty much drains my energy since I work 12 hour shifts.

 

I have to tell you though, it's almost tore down to nothing at this point, as I deleted all the troop entries that had all of the troop events set up and I also deleted the skills and common events since I was going to set up effects and reactions instead of so many page events.

 

I've pretty much just been treading water and not making any progress on this for about 3 weeks to a month.

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Don't tear yourself. Here's a suggestion: write down all the functionalities you want and pm me. We'll start from there.

[Wren 179]

SUG IS THE BEST.

 

With Sughayyer's help I have streamlined monster creation.  Still working the kinks out of battle reactions but I should be able to figure that out.  So for the first time in about 2 months I made some actual progress on this project!!!!!

 

It seems the three ladies who got the most votes are Jennett, Sara and Mrissa.  I've used this feedback to make a decision which I will work on is secret, mwahahahaha.

 

So, pretty happy about getting some actual progress made.

 

My new dilemma(s) is this:

 

Should I have the monsters I fight be 'classic' monsters such as Vampires, Werewolves, etc etc or more to creatures that wouldn't have any self awareness, such as slimes, gargoyles and man eating plants?  Or something even stranger, like twisted creatures formed out of magical mist, like things you see out of resident evil or silent hill?

 

Also, I think I should narrow down my weapon materials to wood/stone/copper/steel/silver/mithril/runic/fire/ice/poison mixed with Blunt, Pierce, and Slash, I'd lose about 5 or 6 element types for weapons to make it a little more simple.

[+ Sughayyer 163]

I couldn't have done anything without the great scripters of this community... thanks goes to them as well.

My oppinion on both matters:

 

1) Since monsters are by-products of this mist thing in your world, what if werewolves were mutated humans or wolves with shreds of self-awareness? And undead monsters like vampires could be the result of this effect over dead bodies. Thus, you can have both kind of monsters - a few born with no conscience at all, and a few with nothing but remains of their mind... If you aproach it that way, those monsters' existence is much more tortured.

 

2) Maybe do that and keep it simpler if this makes your task easier.

[HumanNinja 144]

1) I'm always a fan of monsters that are familiar. Creating crazy things can be fun but then can be confusing as well. You could try keeping the monsters in theme with the game. For example, if you're game takes place in a german-esque fantasy world; google german monster lore and borrow from that. Or if you're game takes place in an irish-esque fantasy world, google irish monster lore and borrow from that. You get what I mean? It's an idea anyway.

 

2) KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid

Simpler is always better IMO

[Wren 179]

I got fog/mist and light effects working.

 

I was going to try and do step noises, but might pull that script out since I don't know if I need it.

 

Still having problem with reactions causing a CTD without error window after awarding my party XP twice.

 

I'm still pretty happy that I got so much done last few days.

 

Tsukihime is super awesome and has fixed the problem that was causing the crashing.

 

Tsukihime also fixed a problem that was causing elemental reactions from not working.

 

So, with these two delays cleared, I am now ready to begin planning and setting up the reaction systems.

 

At this point, I am looking at two major paths.

 

Path 1)  -  Set up my original plan of having enemy troops forming 1 or 2 monsters using multiple pieces, with the main piece (body) linking the limbs/head and having one special location (head, heart, brain, eye) as a possible weak spot for each monster.  However this sorta lets the player know that if you see a monster with Head/Body/Heart/Arms you probably can avoid hitting the arms and focus on the heart since it is sort of a give away that is the weak spot.

 

Path 2)  - Set up each monster as Head/Body/Arms/Legs (or equivalent if the monster doesn't have typical arms or legs (plant monster)) and have the weak spot move every turn, the hunter class can use a skill that detects and locks the weak spot until it is attacked.  Thus, the players must use the "correct" combination of attack type and element on the locked in weak spot and they can either instantly kill or severely damage the monster (still haven't decided on instant death for correct combo yet).

 

However, messing around I also found that I might be able to set up interesting interactions with states and skills and elements where I might be able to add states that when attacked with specific elements or skills will add or remove states so I could bring back the concept I had several months ago about enraged and weakened monsters, where if you hit a monster with the "correct" attacks you weaken it via states and if you use the "incorrect" attacks you enrage it making it stronger, thus you can't just spam attack and be successful.

 

But all of this is starting to get in the way of what I want to accomplish, which is to have a combat system where a player can't just tap enter and attack every round and expect the game to be easy.

 

I want some challenge where the player has to at least remember something about the monster they are facing and use some sort of strategy to defeat it, either determining a weak spot or remembering that they have to use a silver arrow on a werewolf, something that engages the player and forces them to not spam attack 97% of the time.

 

So, as of now, I am open to suggestions on how to shape the combat system.  I definitely don't want to sit on this too long, as if I do I'll go off and lose interest in the project again and it will stagnate, so I will be making a decision probably before this weekend.

 

ANY suggestion or comment will be appreciated at this point.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Wren

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Ok, let's say that to kill a goblin you must get rid of his torso/head. But while he has arms, he will hit, and hit HARD.

But take both his arms and he'll start to... bite? I dunno.

That way you have to think the battle strategically. But then again it will become a maiming bloodfest....

 

What I am trying to accomplish in my game (this couldn't be seen in the teaser because I made it easy on purpose, with the exception of the secret boss) is the following: a wild animal or an armed opponent CAN kill you in around 2 hits, just like real life. Hard armor absorbs a lot of damage (just like real life) and can eve nullify a successful hit. Since all stats, damage, etc work proportionally (most of) you either have to have much more training than the enemy to a point it makes an actual difference, OR you have to be much better equipped OR you have to use dirty tricks (most status effects will incapacitate an enemy long enough so you can kill it). Or magic, because in my game a natural spellcaster using magic delivers an obscene ammount of damage.

 

Why did I do this? Because I want the battles to be thought strategically and I want the skills to be actually used. Also, almost all the battles are optional, except for the story-driven ones. That said, I still consider combat a VERY important part of rpgs.

[Wren 179]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mpff4qrjwcn5hvf/MHLR%20-%20Battle%20Demo.zip - Playable battle system demo

 

A few rough edges to smooth out, but I'm looking for feedback.

 

 

Note:  Talk to Seth for a quick idea of what to do, but a few things that are helpful:

• Silver arrows or using hunter strike with a silver arrow will cause the slime to counter attack the entire party
• Hunter Strike relies on the enemy being weakened by damage.  I'll set up a state that is applied when the monster falls to that range so it will alert the party and even flash red.
• The slime will be revived and healed if it's hp is reduced to 0 without being struck with a runic weapon that turn or shot with hunter strike while under 25%.
• Slime Goop heals the slime.  Defeat this part to better keep track of the slime's hp.
• Slime Oooze attacks the party every turn
• Slime Core uses an ability that reduces the costs of all it's other abilities
• Slime is what you have to kill with a runic weapon or ability or with Hunter Strike

Edited March 8, 2014 by Wren

[HumanNinja 144]

I didn't really get what I was supposed to be doing in the battle in order to win the right way. What I did do: I attacked with the two dudes, used the runic blast, and healed. I did that every turn and although I took a lot of damage, I still won the fight. So I realize that starting a new game, that will probably not work because I'm sure you don't start with 99 power runes.

 

So is each enemy type going to be a trial and error of what attacks to use on which part? Or is there going to be a system/skill in play that will guide the player in figuring it all out?

 

Also, when I tried to heal from the menu, the game crashed.

 

I do believe this new way of battling is a bit more interesting than the set up in the first demo you put out. I remember the first way was to just pick a move and spam it when you got it correct, which was easy due to that handy 'find weakness' skill.

 

Maybe if there were visual clues during battle that hinted at an enemies weakness then that may help people out a bit without you having to hold the players hand. For instance, body parts flashing a color: Maybe different colors mean different responses when attacked. Or possibly different graphics: Like if you happen to hit the weak spot of an enemy then that piece of the enemy would change its graphic to show it being wounded.

[Wren 179]

The actual game will have a better tutorial, for sure.  Using silver in any of your attacks against the slime will cause it to retaliate.  Wood arrows or the runic weapon or even the mace should not trigger the counter attack.

 

If the monster reaches 0 hp and was not attacked by a runic weapon that turn, it will revive.  The hunter can use hunter strike if the slime's hp is less than 25% and kill it as well.

 

I may up that to 40%, since it seems it is hard to gauge when to use it while everyone else is attacking and it is also healing itself.

 

Thanks for the feedback HumanNinja. 

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Hey Wren! I played the battle demo.

Things are working fine, but each enemy is going to be a puzzle.

And more often than not, I drove the slime to 0 hp, but it revived just before the runic attack... you could drop the semi-defeated monsters revival to last in the action queue. This will make the balles a bit easier.

Other than that, it's great!

[Wren 179]

I'm refining and smoothing out the edges to make the battle system more reliable.

 

Adding in queues so you know when monsters are open to be hunter striked, and to be more forgiving on attack order so a monster doesn't revive before the end of the turn.

 

What is hard is finding out how to handle monster healing since if a monster heals it doesn't always register that it is no longer under the hp level.

 

However, pretty sure I can figure this out and should have version 2 of the demo out soon.  After I get that done I am going to go back to working on the actual project and rewrite the needed lore and dialogue events.

[Wren 179]

Battle Demo V2.2 is ready!

 

Improved functionality, less system breaking!

 

Visual and audio clues when monsters are weak enough to be killed with a hunter attack.

 

Slimey the tutorial slime will tell you about the basics, then you can kill him!

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mpff4qrjwcn5hvf/MHLR%20-%20Battle%20Demo.zip

[Spectre 829]

Should've dropped by earlier.

Anyway, comments just from the playthrough:

 

• Very interesting battle demo, actually, but with the fact that your monster can die anyway, it makes hunter skills a bit irrelevant as of now. Perhaps make them special "Execution skills" that finish off a wounded monster?
• I like that your slime retaliates a lot more as its components are chipped away. Keep that there, it makes players rethink about just spamming attacks on the core.
• Perhaps show an indicator that the components of the monster are damaged/unusable.
• Will it be something like Monster Hunter where a wounded enemy runs off, and you can finish it off if you track it down thereafter?