Bullets in combat

[MerlinCross 2]

Have a bit of an idea for a system in a game setting I thought up. First it would be modern setting, with real world guns. I'd like to establish that first so hopefully I can get some points across. 

 

Rather than having infinite bullets, I was trying to think up a way to kinda nerf that. Make players pay for bullets? That would be a very fast way to put people off from an RPG, Horror survival maybe but not what I was going for. Finally I came up with a decent idea. TP = Bullets. 

 

To explain further; 

 

-Each type of gun(pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc) would take a certain amount of Bullets to fire. This would replace the standard attack opinion. 

 

-Using items, skills, or other actions; players could refill the Bullet gauge to keep attacking. For example, Defending could be "Reload" giving a small defense buff and refilling the gauge. Ammo Clips could refill the gauge for the whole team. 

 

-This way players would have to worry about how many shots they have, but still not have to worry about the endless supply of reloads they have. 

 

 

However, not sure if people would enjoy a system like this given that a lot of games don't make you worry about ammo for the gun. So I was wondering if this sounds like an interesting/cool/fun idea, and how other people handle guns in their games. 

Edited August 3, 2013 by MerlinCross

[estriole 326]

It's okay. Some games like wild arms work that mechanic well. (Limited count of bullet but infinite reload). It's not frustrating as requiring item to shoot. (Consume arrow). Even consume arrow people could still enjoy it if that kind of attack have advantage than melee attack. In ragnarok online bow consume arrow. But arrow can be elemental. While melee weapon with elemental is harder to get (need to be smithed). And melee weapon with elemental cannot have slots to insert powerup cards. While bows can insert powerup cards and have the element from the arrow.

I remember the combo of bow with cards + element arrow which can boost damage to 300 - 400 percent. While elemental melee weapon max can achieve 200 percent damage (from element).

 

The ammo concept also add depth to strategy. Like some gun damage is high but have low bullet count. Means more reload (lowering average damage / turn). But high burst damage could sometimes end the round quick (before reloading).

 

In wild arm we could also upgrade the gun (we choose which aspect to raise. Ex increase accuracy. Increase damage, increase bullet, etc). Each weapon has max upgrade limit each category though (ex: attack can be upgraded until reach 100 atk, ammo until 10. Each weapon differ according weapon type). So add more strategy when upgrading weapon.

Edited August 3, 2013 by estriole

[MerlinCross 2]

RIGHT, I forgot that Wild Arms 3 had a system like that. 

 

Not sure the Ragnarok Online example would work though, but I'm unsure how that game plays anyway. Balencing the cost of ammo across 4-6 PCs along with possible ammo types might be hard.

 

Thanks for the advice estriole.

[HumanNinja 144]

I think having ammo limits works well in games that use an ABS but not so much in games that use turn based battle. It would, to me, be frustrating to have to use a turn to refill my ammo.

[+ morewordsfaster 28]

I disagree about reloading in a turn-based game, but I also think that you could do something to keep it from getting too irritating. The simplest way would be to allow reloading at any time, but I think that that eliminates the strategic element. I like having reload take a turn (in fact I like your guard idea), but I think you could have a quick reload skill that allows the player to reload and fire at the expense of accuracy or defense for the next turn, etc.

 

I would be really interested in a game like that.

[estriole 326]

@moreword: ah yes. Agree. Some skill like that.

Also something like Quick draw. Reload 'one' bullet. Then shoot it immediately. (basically like Expending no bullet 0+1-1 = 0).
Can be used only if the ammo empty.
(Realistic. When you have some chamber have bullet and some empty. You might delayed because confused where to insert the new bullet. Thus the skill failed. Also if you still have bullet. This skill is not necessary).
Will have speed fix reduction (so come out slower in turn).
Also Using quickdraw. Accuracy decreased a lot unless have passive skill quick draw expert. Lol.

@humanninja: in wild arm when the bullet run out. We can still attack. Using melee attack. But the damage is low(and cannot hit flying enemy - realistic). So it's up to the player to reload so next turn damage more using bullet. Or use his guns to whack the enemy to the death because it's already low hp.
Add more strategic element. .

I hope the op also implement that feature.

Edited August 4, 2013 by estriole

[+ morewordsfaster 28]

Also, one of the best RPG battle systems with guns IMO is Parasite Eve for PSX. If you haven't tried it, I'd definitely try it, or at least watch some videos.

[Aner-Dyfan 3]

One possible feature I've pondered about for an RPG would be a double action system where one action would be defensive and the other offensive. Though I can never get it to fit.

 

Defensive phase could have skills such as:

Reload ammo (or TP)

Dive for cover (to avoid grenades)

Aim carefully (increased damage/accuracy at expense of defense)

Hide (forgo combat action, but can heal or reload)

 

Then the combat phase could be played out as a normal one.

 

The problem with this is the added actions involved could make combat irritating especially if the enemy cause you to always end up selecting the same 1 or 2 defensive options.

 

As for worrying about looking out for ammo? We already worry about MP and potions for that, nothing new here.

[MerlinCross 2]

As for worrying about looking out for ammo? We already worry about MP and potions for that, nothing new here.

 

True but I think managing bullets as inventory rather than a replenishing gauge would be harder to do. How many bullets come in a pack or do I sell bullets one by one? Do I make separate clips per weapon? What about costs? 

 

Granted, using bullets as inventory could allow for the player to use non-standard rounds like incendiary or armor-piecing. But with the idea I currently have, those could be skill based shots or buffs. 

[estriole 326]

@moreword: parasite eve. That's a good game. Although I didn't play it. I watch my cousin play it a lot.

 

@merlin: your system means not allowing switching weapon in battle. (Or can it?).

 

Since different weapon means different bullet count.

 

If you tie the bullet to the weapon instead. You could create this situation:

Actor shot his shotgun 5 times. Ammo depleted.

Actor change to his handgun and shoot again... Until handgun ammo depleted.

 

This open to support skill.

Reload all.

Use 1 turn to reload all party member unused gun (in inventory).

The concept is like in some japan when guns just got famous. But cannot rapid fire. One person shoot. Another person prepare the next gun so can shoot in succession...

[MerlinCross 2]

@merlin: your system means not allowing switching weapon in battle. (Or can it?).

 

Since different weapon means different bullet count.

 

If you tie the bullet to the weapon instead. You could create this situation:

Actor shot his shotgun 5 times. Ammo depleted.

Actor change to his handgun and shoot again... Until handgun ammo depleted.

 

This open to support skill.

Reload all.

Use 1 turn to reload all party member unused gun (in inventory).

The concept is like in some japan when guns just got famous. But cannot rapid fire. One person shoot. Another person prepare the next gun so can shoot in succession...

 

That might take some scripting on my part. The system I was thinking of was having the Party Member be able to use certain guns. Well Hand gun would probably be usable by all, but say one could Shotguns and Submachine guns, when another can use assault rifles and sniper rifles, with each character having skills revolving around the guns they can use.

 

But I could include like a Gunsmith or Tinker like character to rapid reload in battle or something now that I think about it.