Lilium Cruentus [Final Considerations before submitting Demo]

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Updated the first post because I forgot to add the copyright info on the sountrack! It was NOT written by me!

[Wren 179]

LC Teaser Feedback Notes:

 

• Opening screen and music nice.
• I like how it jumps right into a cut scene.
• Like the character sprite style.
• Why are the dudes training off to one side only?  Suggestion - Have them on both sides and stop when the main guy walks in.
• Next cut scene, you are able to provide names and a little insight into the personality types of the two women, good job.
• Next scene.  The whispering does still throw me off a little.  Don't know why, I'd expect much more respect for the Emperor.  Don't know how you would go about adjusting this any.
• City seems pretty good once I get to walk around.  The cobble/stone roads seem like it meanders a bit in the town.  Seems like either the city doesn't maintain proper paths or the people who do maintain like to freeform in any direction.  I know it is a little nitpicky, but it comes to mind while I am playing.
• The clerk at the docks is confused. Probably should be "Please talk to the clerk on my left" not "in"
• Oh, a gag, but they turn to the side for some reason. Typo, already spelled alredy
• Agronopolus seems to have lost his ..accent?  Speech patterns?  He isn't saying thus/thou stuff on the docks.
• I like the wave/ocean sounds on the boat.
• Delores is kinda creepy.
• Inn keeper says 'Wer used to have customers"  that intentional spelling to show an accent or a typo?
• I see how you are dropping hints that combining elements may be effective with dialogue.
• Tiny world map sprites, nice effect
• Battle system looks very nice, good job
• Cave is pretty cool, like the torch light effects
• Level up notification is pretty slick
• Essence system is cool, Galv's script right?
• Bummer, an empty chest
• War Machine/boss fight was pretty fun.
• Save interface is pretty cool
• Kinda lost now, I killed the machine but don't know what else to do, went back to town and talked to mayor but he was no help.  Trying to find out why animals went nuts and plants started dying, but I don't know where or how to do this.

 

That's as far as I went, I wondered about for about 5 or so minutes after that talking to people but didn't progress anymore.

 

Overall I think it is shaping up to be a good project!

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Heh, thanks!

Yeah, I messed up on a few points (Tsarmina pointed basically the same mistakes as you). Dislexy was also pretty apparent in there, I'll revise the dialogs more thoroughly.

 

You can only finish the teaser by reading the clues/journals/scrolls in the cave, then returning to the Mayor. After that, just take the boat back home, as someone in the party suggests.

[Wren 179]

I was really impressed with your combat engine setup, your menu screens (save screen / essence screen ).  The brown color for the interface did start to look better as I was playing.  Maps also were pretty good, the cave was just enough confusing and twisty to make it fun but not tedious.

 

Seriously, great job thus far on the project, it has a great deal of impressive features.

[+ Sughayyer 163]

I can't thank enough for the support. If everything is in working order, I think I can probably start the production of the game itself.

[+ Sughayyer 163]

I know the teaser has some spelling problems (dislexy and bad review) but instead of correcting it I will leave as it is. The reason behind it is that the sole purpose of this small teaser is to demonstrate the mechanics of the game, the graphic style I decided to use, etc.

Instead of correcting the minor mistakes of the teaser, I will start the production of the game itself. Of course, if you haven't played this teaser yo uare welcome to it, and your feedback wil lbe MUCH appreciated.I intend to eventually post a demo at the gaming lounge, but I cannot say when it will be ready since my schedule is usually all messed up.

For those who are following/giving oppinions/helping me out, all I can say is a BIG THANK YOU, and I hope I can produce a game worthy of this community!

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Added a poll to help me come to a decision regarding the graphics style. Vote away!!

Remember that whichever style is used, graphic consistency WILL be kept (faces, tiles, icons, etc will all match the chosen style).

The great conflict here is the classical 2D/anime vs a VERY detailed set of resources.

[Wren 179]

You could always set up a couple maps with both and show side by side comparison and see which one gets more votes, unless you haven't actually gotten the pack yet....

[+ Sughayyer 163]

I WAS going to post two rows of pictures, one with anime style graphics and one with the high fantasy.

First of all, the high fantasy is really gorgeous, but... it looked like there was something missing... my wife looked at the two and said: "definitely go for the anime one". Mind you, she was the one who convinced me in first place to use the high fantasy... But yeah. Those resources are really beautiful, but not meant for my game. Maybe I'll use them someday in a different project.

 

Also, I am working on a playable demo, and I hope to soon post it at the gaming lounge... let's see if the schedule helps this time!

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Ok, the actual game is under production and a demo version will soon be released. I would like to know from a moderator how should I proceed - if this thread must be moved to the game lounge, if I must repost over my old thread (after all it is a complete revamp of the game) or if I should create a new thread.

[+ Sughayyer 163]

The demo is finished. I am going to submit it to the Gaming Lounge this week. But before that, I would really appreciate some feedback on certain aspects that can be changed -- and I'm also going to annouce some of the game mechanics.

 

I'll first talk about the features, and then I'll ask for oppinions on the referred issues.

 

* Day and night system: Players can experience the passing of time on this game. Players should visit towns and villages both during the dany and at night, since soem informations and quests are only available at certain time periods.

 

* Little combat / Grind'em  system: There are only a few really needed battles. You can see the enemies on-screen (more on that later) so it's easy to avoid them. Also, escape rate is 100% (but it's not instant, it takes time to escape from a battle). There are ways to develop the characters' skills other than combat. But for traditional JRPG players, the enemies can be grinded for rewards at will.

 

* Skill learning system: Skills can be obtained by buying them with skill points. Skill Points are obtained either through creative tactics in battle (spamming "attack" is not a way to get many skill points) or through studying.

 

* Strategic battle system: Every battle must be won with strategy. Since the AI accesses the characters abilities, there's no need to grind them. In fact, if you make the characters study to learn the skills, you don't even need to level them up. But there are three different approaches to handle the enemies, and you must learn realize it quickly during the battle. Some can be taken down with brute force, some with magical attacks, and others must be neutralized to be more easily defeated.

 

* Magic system: There are two types of magic in the game: studied magic, that is learned only by wizards, and essence magic. Essences can be attached to the characters to add magic spells. Combining different essences will produce different magic spells - Fire + Water = Boil, Water + Light = Purify, Water + Darkness = Pox. And so on.... There are nine types of "element" essences (Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, the two aspects of Nothing, Body, Mind and Spirit).

 

* Enchant equipment system: Similarly, these essences can be attached to the equipment pieces instead of the characters themselves. Doing this is irreversible (unless you destroy the attached essence to free space). This improves the characters' parameters.

 

* Quest system: You don't have a "quest journal" but you can still perform various tasks for different people you'll find. They can reward you with money, items or other useful things.

 

* Battle formatin matters: Assigning the order of the formation is important. The character on point will take the bulk of the damage, while the character on the back will seldom be targetted.

 

Ok, now on to the questions:

 

Visible enemies on the world map?

 

That the enemies are visible on explorable areas must not be questioned. But after some testing, I feel the world map is a bit clogged up with sprites. Associating it to the fact that the world map is enormous (500x500) and the system has to control their zoom (map is scaled) and movement and bummer: slug mode on. Besides it seems realistic not to have the enemy sprites on-screen on the world map, since fierce, hungry beasts and nasty burglars usually don't attack in plain view. What do you think about it? I want to get this resolved before submitting the demo.

 

Few, one-of-a-kind, enchantable equipments

 

Each character has about four weapons at their disposal, plus one special weapon. Different weapons rely on different parameters for damage - there are swords which damage using strenght, others using dexterity. Axes use only strenght, but there's a magical axe that damages using willpower. And so on...

In order not to overwhelm the player with choices, the equipment list isn't too large. All of them can also be enchanted, so you can customize your characters' traits.

Same with armors: the full plate mail isn't necessarily the best armor. The tank character might like it, but for the rogue character it will be more a hindrance than a benefit. The mage character can't even use it correctly. So, is this a good system? Or should I revert to the old "go in store, buy weapon" traditional system?

 

Whew, that's it. I'll apreciate any info I get while there's still time (I'd like to send the demo soon).

 

Thanks for all your help and support!

[tensoup 9]

Wow, I haven't been on this site in nearly a year so I wasn't expectng a new game this quickly! I'll definitelly take a look, sounds interesting! And congrats on getting this far :^)

 

 

Just finished playing quite a bit of your demo and I have to say "It's not for me."

 

Now, that by no means says anything about the quality of the game- more so aesthetic preferance. I can see that the game is very well put together and if I had the time I would play the entire thing for the sake of feedback, but I was not that interested.

 

It is great so far and I'm sure many people will like it, but there wasn't enough unique imported content for my taste, I really like games that don't look anything like what VX ACE starts off with. And I'm not really a fan of the genre- more to say I am not a fan of the basic fantasy RPG archetype.

 

I did not encounter any glitches, and I enjoyed the conveyance of story, setting, and characters. All around a pretty enjoyable experiance wit h a lot of effort put into it.

 

Keep up the good work and good luck on this and future projects!

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Hey, Tensoup, thanks for the feedback. Your words were very encouraging. I should have specified better that the gameplay is more traditional, J-RPG oriented.

 

I really appreciate it, especially due to the fact that you have played only the teaser (which I basically put out to test the features). The demo version will come soon (just need the last tweakings).

 

Once again, I thank your words and wish best of luck in your projects as well.

[Spectre 829]

Sorry for the long delay. I was caught up with work matters.

I suppose I'll start commenting on the features first, before my opinions on the teaser:

 

 

* Day and night system: Players can experience the passing of time on this game. Players should visit towns and villages both during the dany and at night, since soem informations and quests are only available at certain time periods.

Very interesting mechanic, and allows for a higher degree of customization. Not many comments on this.

 

 

Little combat / Grind'em  system: There are only a few really needed battles. You can see the enemies on-screen (more on that later) so it's easy to avoid them. Also, escape rate is 100% (but it's not instant, it takes time to escape from a battle). There are ways to develop the characters' skills other than combat. But for traditional JRPG players, the enemies can be grinded for rewards at will.

In which case, I assume the bulk of your gameplay doesn't rely so much on combat.

You'll then have to make up for it with a lesser dependency on levelling up characters and getting equipment, and more on skills or negotiation; yet, make it fun for the player.

 

 

* Skill learning system: Skills can be obtained by buying them with skill points. Skill Points are obtained either through creative tactics in battle (spamming "attack" is not a way to get many skill points) or through studying.

 

* Strategic battle system: Every battle must be won with strategy. Since the AI accesses the characters abilities, there's no need to grind them. In fact, if you make the characters study to learn the skills, you don't even need to level them up. But there are three different approaches to handle the enemies, and you must learn realize it quickly during the battle. Some can be taken down with brute force, some with magical attacks, and others must be neutralized to be more easily defeated.

That doesn't sound very strategic to me, or it doesn't show any AI capabilities whatsoever.

AIs ought to act like human players and actively examine your party to shut them down. Have the healers taken out quickly, or the glass cannons unable to attack.

Enemy archetypes are pretty obvious and don't really need to be mentioned, but if possible, mix-and-match, if not, have enemies adjust their archetypes during battle.

 

You'll also need to clarify as to whether your "studying of skills" refers to the player literally memorizing skill effects and combos, or in-game training options at the click of a button.

 

 

* Magic system: There are two types of magic in the game: studied magic, that is learned only by wizards, and essence magic. Essences can be attached to the characters to add magic spells. Combining different essences will produce different magic spells - Fire + Water = Boil, Water + Light = Purify, Water + Darkness = Pox. And so on.... There are nine types of "element" essences (Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, the two aspects of Nothing, Body, Mind and Spirit).

This sounds strangely familiar to Magicka.

You can harness the possibilities of mixing and matching an almost infinite number of spells, but make sure some spells make nice combos with each other.

For instance, a Freeze spell with Water+Water will be negated by a Burn spell with Fire+Fire, but a Spirit spell into a Stone spell could create a Golem rather than merely throwing a stone.

 

 

* Enchant equipment system: Similarly, these essences can be attached to the equipment pieces instead of the characters themselves. Doing this is irreversible (unless you destroy the attached essence to free space). This improves the characters' parameters.

Rather than just parameters, have them boost some spells at the expense of others. Fire enchantments obviously amplify Fire spells at the expense of Water, or unlock new spell effects when used.

 

 

* Quest system: You don't have a "quest journal" but you can still perform various tasks for different people you'll find. They can reward you with money, items or other useful things.

Posting this here is redundant.

 

 

But after some testing, I feel the world map is a bit clogged up with sprites.

Associating it to the fact that the world map is enormous (500x500) and the system has to control their zoom (map is scaled) and movement and bummer: slug mode on.

Besides it seems realistic not to have the enemy sprites on-screen on the world map, since fierce, hungry beasts and nasty burglars usually don't attack in plain view. What do you think about it? I want to get this resolved before submitting the demo.

You could actually have blank events that reveal they are enemies once you get within about 10-15 tiles of them, at which point they become encounters.

Get out of range, and they become blank again.

 

This saves on your clutter and makes it really look like an ambush.

 

 

Each character has about four weapons at their disposal, plus one special weapon. Different weapons rely on different parameters for damage - there are swords which damage using strenght, others using dexterity. Axes use only strenght, but there's a magical axe that damages using willpower. And so on...

In order not to overwhelm the player with choices, the equipment list isn't too large. All of them can also be enchanted, so you can customize your characters' traits.

Same with armors: the full plate mail isn't necessarily the best armor. The tank character might like it, but for the rogue character it will be more a hindrance than a benefit. The mage character can't even use it correctly. So, is this a good system? Or should I revert to the old "go in store, buy weapon" traditional system?

This is actually good if you don't want to rely too much on overpowered equipment and high attribute values to overcome battles in the game, although you might want to limit the choices in the early stages of the game.

Moreover, make sure that there are noticeable differences between the equipment so that all are options; daggers deal piercing damage, and are fast and accurate, whereas bigger hammers deal concussive damage and are slow, but pack a mighty punch and give a small chance to stun.

 

Now, over to the teaser: it was boring. I'll be honest, I got sick of it in ten minutes.

You have a very deep storyline that lends itself well to a rich, immersive background to the game.

Except that the game itself is fairly dull, what with emotionless NPCs, unnecessarily long dialogue without much humor injected into it, and maps that are largely barren.

I'm fairly certain that this is nowhere near what the demo looks like, but as much as possible:

• Keep lengthy dialogue about lore to a minimum, and add more personality quirks into the characters.
• Fill up some of the emptier gaps in the map. Doesn't matter if the resources are default; make the maps look interesting.
• Have a greater degree of interaction with the environment
• Have some form of indicator as to where to go for your quests/goals. It doesn't have to be a journal, just asking people for directions will suffice.

[+ Sughayyer 163]

Good, that's a good feedback. That's the reason I'm constantly postponing the release of the demo. I want to make sure that everything flows nicely and the player has a good playing experience.

 

Some of these issues were already adressed, like mapping, enemy behaviour and NPC dialogue. It's just that I won't bother tampering with the teaser amd I'll instead focus on the actual demo. This teaser is something that happens before the game's timeline, it's not part of the game. It was originally meant to test the functions, gameplay style, etc.

 

I'm commenting on a few obsevations:

 

@Rather than just parameters, have them boost some spells at the expense of others. Fire enchantments obviously amplify Fire spells at the expense of Water, or unlock new spell effects when used.

This will not be implemented. Since the selection of magic spells for each character is already limited (and selectable by the player), boosting one kind of magic at the expense of the other will offer very little in terms of gameplay. Pick the wizard character which already knows spells, stuff it with a lot of fire essence-combinations and enchant his/her gear with MORE fire essences. Boom, game's broken.

 

@You could actually have blank events that reveal they are enemies once you get within about 10-15 tiles of them, at which point they become encounters.

Get out of range, and they become blank again.

This saves on your clutter and makes it really look like an ambush.

 

The problem is that the events would still have to be processed. Usually VXAce only process events that are withing a predetermined range, to avoid unnecessary processing,thus reducing lags, and so forth. But since every sprite is zoomed out in the world map, the engine has to process every single event on the map, whether visible or not. The idea was great and I'll probably use it in the future, but the main goal in this issue is system performance.

 

@That doesn't sound very strategic to me, or it doesn't show any AI capabilities whatsoever.

AIs ought to act like human players and actively examine your party to shut them down. Have the healers taken out quickly, or the glass cannons unable to attack.

Enemy archetypes are pretty obvious and don't really need to be mentioned, but if possible, mix-and-match, if not, have enemies adjust their archetypes during battle.

You'll also need to clarify as to whether your "studying of skills" refers to the player literally memorizing skill effects and combos, or in-game training options at the click of a button.

 

My text was rather confusing. I meant, the enemies HAVE a main strategic plan and some contingency plans, but aside from that, you must learn a) how to stop/neutralize them and how to easily defeat them. 

 

About skill progression: characters can earn skill points by battle actions OR by studying.

 

 

Last comment about combat: combat IS an important part of the game since it's essentially a J-RPG, but unlike most games of the genre you are not overwhelmed by the number of battles and they are easily avoidable. Even the scripted battles can be won at low levels.

 

 

The one thing I must work HARD is to make the characters develop smoothly. I'm pretty good at design/story creation, but sometimes I read the dialogue and am like "wtf?!" Then I start rewriting t all.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Sughayyer