Adding new elemental types other than typical 'fire beats grass beats water'?

[Pathos Prime 9]

There's also a few examples of odd rock-paper-scissors-like triangles in Japanese culture - for example, frogs beat slugs beat snakes beat frogs (As seen in The Legend of Jiraiya, which was the inspiration for Naruto).

 

And arrows (archers) beat spears (cavalry) beat swords (infantry) beat arrows (as seen in Suikoden and Warrior's Way for the 3DS).

Edited March 1, 2014 by Pathos Prime

[Tussin 1]

came across this in Demon Slayer too.

 

 

found this with Riftwalker as well.

 

Elements
There are only four of these, but they're important!

• Solar-- The light, warmth and energy of the sun. Although firey moves fall into this category, it's important to remember that Solar =/= Fire! Solar opposes Lunar, meaning that it's strong against Lunar aligned creatures, but vulnerable to Lunar attacks. Too much sun scorches the earth, so it is also effective against Gaia. The Dazzled state is frequently associated with the Solar element.
• Lunar-- Dark, cold and harsh. Lunar attacks cover all things frigid and shadowy! Lunar opposes Solar. The harsh cold of the shadows blot out stars, making it effective against Sky. The Bleed state is frequently associated with the Lunar element
• Sky-- Air, wind, gusting. Sky opposes Gaia. Clouds cover the sun and reflect it's light, so it is effective against Solar. The Migraine state is frequently associated with the Sky element.
• Gaia-- Earth, nature, life. Gaia opposes Sky. The warmth of nature and life overcomes the cold shadows of the moon, making it effective against Lunar. The Stun state is frequently associated with the Gaia element.

[2BitsLP 21]

I set my game up with fire, water, air, and earth, but they are different than usual. Earth -> Fire -> Air -> Water -> Earth. Also, Holy and Dark elements are stand-alone. They fit with my aesthetic in my game, though, so they make more sense. :3 But everyone has 3 variants. For example, a Fire user is weak to Earth, but can absorb Fire. They are also resistant to Air. Sometimes these elements are mixed when it comes to enemies as well, so strategy is key.

 

I say just keep it simple. Pokemon was fun in the early days, but I think it's way too convoluted now to remember all those attacks and types... :/

[MoonEnder 1]

I plan to have my game with the concept of "sister" elements

For example wood element's sisters would be water and earth. Sister elements would have a resistance as a result

Fire spells  are best for wood. Fire's sisters are lightning and lava (lightning and fire are energy expressed in nature)

thus each element is strong against several (wood, ice) and resistant against 2 and weak to several (water, metal[tempers])

this makes an area logically having many types of enemies and reduces the effect of pulling a pokemon and focusing on one element for a particular dungeon/ area and insted requring more strategy

[Lt. Ulquiorra 9]

Maybe try void? Basically, it flows in the four elements. And using this adds another element, destruction and creation (or it also can use the lifestream to create new techniques).

 

Maybe you can also combine those elements? For example, fire + water = steam (pretty much like an accuracy reduction skill) or rock + fire = lava (damages with fire element and the target receives occurring damage)

 

If my idea has been expressed already, pardon me.

 

Btw, other meaning of void is nothing

 

Edit: Maybe you could also include time and space as different elements/ technique types. I dunno how would you be able to use them though lol (peace)

Edited April 4, 2014 by GxCoud12

[TheoAllen 830]

I never use classical elements such as Water, Earth, Wind, Light, Dark, Void, or such.

I prefer to use a more realistic damage element. Here is my rule :

• Slash (Sword, Dagger, Axe)
• Pierce (Gun, Arrow, Spear)
• Impact (Hammer, Frag Grenade, Cannon, Punch)
• Heat (Flames, or fire spells)
• Cold (Frostbite, or other cold spells)
• Thunder (Lightning, of course)
• Arcane (Mental damage such as curse or illusion. Can be used to replace holy or dark)
• Acid / Poison (Corrosive fluid or such)

So, what if I have spells that summon earth, water, or wind magics?

 

Let's thinks once again. If you're planning to toss a boulder to target, that is not earth damage. It is an IMPACT damage!

Water slice can be categorized as slash damage. Also water splash can be categorized as impact damage.

How about Aqua Bullet? It is pierce damage!

 

My idea isn't original. It was inspired from a game called The Battle for Wesnoth (It is an awesome tactical game. And it's FREE!)

[richter_h 67]

Elements? When You should consider that there are some elements that may compliment others, and PARTIALLY negates others.

 

Let's say, when a Water strikes Fire, it's okay to have amplified damage (but doubled damage is just... hell, why?). If you have Ice, doesn't it makes sense to give it another trait to give? Let's say, Water only deal half or three-four of damage dealt to Ice, and for adding cheese on cheesecake, it'll make Freeze state (if applied) to lasts longer.

 

Too much or too less elements will make damage formula to be obsolete, so think and decide carefully

 

As I said, when talking about elements, consider that certain element will have different trait to all of the elements. All of them.

 

If you ask me to tell what elements I use in my project, it's classic and it works independently. It means, it's applied in separate traits yet it still works even in default formula:

• Damage Range
  • Melee
  • Ranged
• Damage Type
  • Blow
  • Slash
  • Pierce
• Elements
  • Fire
  • Thunder
  • Ice
  • Earth
  • Water
  • Wind
  • Light
  • Dark 

 

Those are must be mixed altogether, although the Elements can be ignored to create non-elemental damage (which deals normal damage to all armor type). Why there is damage range? It'll make sense if you can adjust damage range to heavy club (melee, blow) with flail (ranged, blow), and will it be a good idea to make someone who must be immune to all kind of incoming melee damage?

 

My 50 cents.

 

Cheers~

 

 

Good to come back after some time and find something essential to discuss.
First of all I want to point out this link:

 

AboutElementalTypes

It has a ton of usefull stuff about elemental types, so you could do a little thinking on your own.

 

I have to say, elemental types tend to be weakest link in my oppinion. Having too many or too less disbalances whole game. I have never liked pokemon system. I was never really able to understand why some pokemons where grass type when it was obvoius that they should be bug type. Ect.

This is where the dissadvantage of your own created elemental types comes in. You see, everyone has their own associations with what is an „elemental typeâ€, based on many factors, even country one can call home. When European game developer makse clasical four elemental type based game, in Asia it might not be understood. The same goes the other way. If you ask me, I don’t get why there is Metal or Wood, they both seems to come from Earth and sould be classified as damage type not elemental type. But as I said, I don’t know much about Chinese culture. Also what I know from advertising is that stereotypes works better, and if you go all crazy by creating new elements and leaving out the old ones, people will get confused.

 

When you create your elemental types, you should focus more on those that you feel comfortable with. Elemental types that belongs to your game, your idea, your world, because that is a well known fact, elemental types are the essence from what is created everything you see around. Of course no one is going to hit you in face if you don’t use classical four, five or whatever used types. But using them can never hurt. Because no matter where is your world located, in ethernal planes or in hell, it will still have some of classical elements in it.

I belive than giving player some idea about what is weak/strong against what is where your can start, later, well, who belives you don’t learn while play game? I think no one can say that, because with exploring world, player always faces new things.

 

Let me give you some idea about how I create elemental types. When I think about them I always keep in mind, that not only monsters, but also skills, spells, items and damage types depends on elemental types I choose. That means, I can’t make elemental type if I can’t classify anything as part of it. Lets say, I choose light and dark. Light has obviously light spell in it, lets say, heal, lets say, banish evil ect. Dark has opposite. But what happens when you combine dark and light? Shadow? Ok, so shadow, cool, whole new elemental type, but…wait a minute, what kind of spells could be under shadow type? Blind? No it goes for dark… Amm... So I do a little thinking and come to conclusion, if I can’t classify anything as part of this elemental type, then I have to get rid of it.

 

About what can hit what, can defend from what and so on.
 

Well that depends on what kind of elemental types you choose, you can use classical scheme, fire suffers double damage from water, takes normal damage from earth and air. Does double damage to earth and normal to water and air.

But you can also choose to do something like this.

You see, if water damages fire, (x2 damage), why is water so lethal to fire? Wouldn’t that be obvious that fire can do the same damage against water? Because it only depends on who’s attacking first. You see, sometimes fire is stronger that water and can’t be put out so easily. Pour a bucket of water on a fire pit. Any changes? No. Water had no effect on fire.

 

But I go a bit further than this. You see.

 

So fire does double damage to earth? Hell no. Try to burn piece of dirt. Fire will damage grass and trees, but not dirt. So its (x1 damage) But how about air? Isn’t that obvious air is the reason fire can burn? So its (x3 damage). But how about dark? Can fire hurt dark? Well it lights light in dark, but that’s all. So its (x0.5 damage). And so on.

 

So, its generally about your imagination and asociations, or goal you want to reach. That can help you to create your own unique system.

If you ask me, I don’t think heat or cold is something more than damage type, because, heat comes from fire, cold comes from water. Laser come from light and so on. But as always, use your own head. I’m just giving you some material to think about.

What about amount of elemental types? I don't know. I have six elemental types planned in my game. Everything else, like piercing damage, heat or light is just a damage types which I classify as part of my elemental types. Try to group all types that comes in your mind under few main types. And then make thease main types as your elemental types. As long as you don't force player to learn rocket science, its all good.

Stay creative, set goals, evolve.

 

This. Made my day.

Edited April 4, 2014 by richter_h

[Lt. Ulquiorra 9]

 

Good to come back after some time and find something essential to discuss.

First of all I want to point out this link:

 

AboutElementalTypes

 

It has a ton of usefull stuff about elemental types, so you could do a little thinking on your own.

 

I have to say, elemental types tend to be weakest link in my oppinion. Having too many or too less disbalances whole game. I have never liked pokemon system. I was never really able to understand why some pokemons where grass type when it was obvoius that they should be bug type. Ect.

 

This is where the dissadvantage of your own created elemental types comes in. You see, everyone has their own associations with what is an „elemental typeâ€, based on many factors, even country one can call home. When European game developer makse clasical four elemental type based game, in Asia it might not be understood. The same goes the other way. If you ask me, I don’t get why there is Metal or Wood, they both seems to come from Earth and sould be classified as damage type not elemental type. But as I said, I don’t know much about Chinese culture. Also what I know from advertising is that stereotypes works better, and if you go all crazy by creating new elements and leaving out the old ones, people will get confused.

 

When you create your elemental types, you should focus more on those that you feel comfortable with. Elemental types that belongs to your game, your idea, your world, because that is a well known fact, elemental types are the essence from what is created everything you see around. Of course no one is going to hit you in face if you don’t use classical four, five or whatever used types. But using them can never hurt. Because no matter where is your world located, in ethernal planes or in hell, it will still have some of classical elements in it.

 

I belive than giving player some idea about what is weak/strong against what is where your can start, later, well, who belives you don’t learn while play game? I think no one can say that, because with exploring world, player always faces new things.

 

Let me give you some idea about how I create elemental types. When I think about them I always keep in mind, that not only monsters, but also skills, spells, items and damage types depends on elemental types I choose. That means, I can’t make elemental type if I can’t classify anything as part of it. Lets say, I choose light and dark. Light has obviously light spell in it, lets say, heal, lets say, banish evil ect. Dark has opposite. But what happens when you combine dark and light? Shadow? Ok, so shadow, cool, whole new elemental type, but…wait a minute, what kind of spells could be under shadow type? Blind? No it goes for dark… Amm... So I do a little thinking and come to conclusion, if I can’t classify anything as part of this elemental type, then I have to get rid of it.

 

About what can hit what, can defend from what and so on.

 

Well that depends on what kind of elemental types you choose, you can use classical scheme, fire suffers double damage from water, takes normal damage from earth and air. Does double damage to earth and normal to water and air.

 

But you can also choose to do something like this.

 

You see, if water damages fire, (x2 damage), why is water so lethal to fire? Wouldn’t that be obvious that fire can do the same damage against water? Because it only depends on who’s attacking first. You see, sometimes fire is stronger that water and can’t be put out so easily. Pour a bucket of water on a fire pit. Any changes? No. Water had no effect on fire.

 

But I go a bit further than this. You see.

 

So fire does double damage to earth? Hell no. Try to burn piece of dirt. Fire will damage grass and trees, but not dirt. So its (x1 damage) But how about air? Isn’t that obvious air is the reason fire can burn? So its (x3 damage). But how about dark? Can fire hurt dark? Well it lights light in dark, but that’s all. So its (x0.5 damage). And so on.

 

So, its generally about your imagination and asociations, or goal you want to reach. That can help you to create your own unique system.

 

If you ask me, I don’t think heat or cold is something more than damage type, because, heat comes from fire, cold comes from water. Laser come from light and so on. But as always, use your own head. I’m just giving you some material to think about.

 

What about amount of elemental types? I don't know. I have six elemental types planned in my game. Everything else, like piercing damage, heat or light is just a damage types which I classify as part of my elemental types. Try to group all types that comes in your mind under few main types. And then make thease main types as your elemental types. As long as you don't force player to learn rocket science, its all good.

 

Stay creative, set goals, evolve.

Best I saw all day

[Lt. Ulquiorra 9]

I think I read that you are looking for elemental types for a Sci-fi game?

Maybe you can invent or use some scientific terms for that?

 

For example:

 

Photon-type attacks: uses electromagnetic radiation to alter opponent's state. Also deals damage and continuous damage.

There are different Photon-type attack levels:

1. Extremely low frequency RF - induce perceivable currents within the human body that create an annoying tingling sensation. Low damage and it distracts the opponent because he feels something which is not right from his body, reducing accuracy by 15%.

2. Microwave Radiation - decreases defense by 10% (due to weakening of the immune system). Also induces dizziness and headaches, dealing continuous low-damage. (i.e. 10 damage per turn. Lasts until an item is used) Ultimately leads to sleep state (sleep for 3-5 turns). Also gives the opponent 150% bonus attack power for one turn

3. Infrared - increases opponent's accuracy but decreases attack power. deals medium damage and low continuous damage. Also applies burn state

4. UV - induces burn state, accuracy loss and low - medium continuous damage (depending on player level). Deals high damage and decreases opponent reaction speed by 2%

5. Gamma - causes burn state which increases damage every two turns. Deals very high damage. Also induces dizziness (which leads to sleep), and defense decrease dramatically. Induces internal damage, dealing additional medium to high damage per turn. (can only be used if you have 100tp or something like that)

 

Effects of UV (burn state and continuous damage) will stop after the opponent or player use an item. Also applies for gamma effects. Different photon levels require different items.

 

Note: I just based the effects on what I read online. Also, I'm not sure if this can be considered as attack/element types. But, it just came on my mind. So please correct if this is wrong.

 

Edited April 7, 2014 by GxCoud12

[Spectre 829]

So far we've covered a fair bit of ground on the rock-paper-scissors mechanics of what makes elements a viable game mechanic for RPG games. Yet, this still doesn't scratch the surface of the most important question: why are they successful?

 

I'll be looking into two of our most beloved franchises with elemental modifiers, Pokemon and the Final Fantasy series.

 

Elements are what makes Pokemon memorable in terms of its battle system because it offers a clear cut mechanic that younger players can comprehend, yet complex enough for veterans to customize and attune to their liking and battle strategy.

Pokemon does a wonderful job at creating elemental type matching that has a plethora of effect and element combinations.

Scald, U-Turn, Giga Drain, Stealth Rock... admittedly there are many clones to attacks, but enough attacks to make skillsets unique to each Pokemon, and in competitive play the sheer level of depth is nearly unlimited.

This is also emphasised by the limitation of four skills, which forces you to pick those with the highest combat utility for your character amidst an array of specialised skillsets and modifications, which includes coverage elements that counter your weaknesses, and support unorthodox playstyles.

 

Final Fantasy, on the other hand, is not remembered for its elemental based gameplay despite a fair handful of base elements involved.

Primarily, I'd attribute this to the fact that many attacks are clones or simply more powerful variants of each other (Fira, Firaga etc), and while this may be balanced out by raw statistics it makes for a rather dull selection ingame.

This has nothing to do with grinding. Pokemon, to some degree, required grinding, but even in earlier generations did we see that competitive play was still theoretically viable.

 

From this, we can gather that a good elemental system requires:

- Specialized spells offer a greater degree of strategic depth

- A variety of elements for a single character type

- Limited selection of spells

- Elemental typings and attacks are diverse enough to complement numerous playstles.