SMT Persona for Ace

[+ Novem 344]

Hey there guys. Well I've been really addicted to Persona recently, and I felt a little inspired to make a Persona game for Ace.

 

Except, I foresee that being somewhat complicated. So before I even start on that, I want to make sure all of the systems in place. That's where you guys come in, I wanna try and work together to assemble everything we'll need for this to happen. This will be me mostly presenting a feature to be assembled, I'll offer any ideas I have, and you can offer any ideas you have, and we'll try to create a working system for it. I do want to do this mostly through eventing, though if there are any complimentary scripts that would work very well for a certain feature do not hesitate to mention it.

 

My ultimate goal is to release a base for people to make Persona fan games on Ace. That way, even if I never actually get around to finishing this project (because I find it really difficult to finish anything), someone else could use it to make something cool.

 

Got all that? Good. Let's get started.

 

List of Common Persona Systems

 

Here is a list of systems we need to assemble (inspired by Persona 3 and 4). The ones that have been dealt with are crossed out. The one's that probably have easy event solutions or scripts that are already made for such things and can be saved for last are marked with an asterisk.

 

- Persona summoning system.

- Persona leveling system.

- Scanning enemies / elemental weaknesses.

- Calendar / Days Passing. * (Being worked on by SoulPour)

- Non-Combat Attributes (Knowledge, Courage, Understanding, Expression, Diligence). (This is being worked on by SoulpourVII)

- Post-Combat "Shuffle Time" (P4G version). (Probably Solved, need to investigate solution)

- First hit chance for player advantage, direct enemy contact chance for enemy advantage (Dungeon Roaming).

- Books. *

- Co-Op and All-Out Attacks.

- Social Link system. *

- Persona fusion / Persona Compendium. (This is currently the most important element to get functioning) (Will probably use alchemy script, not sure as far as compendium)

- Combat Rush. (This seems like it could be potentially handled by Yanfly's Autobattle, but in Persona Rush is different then just plain auto-battle, it only uses physical attacks)

 

Persona Summoning / Persona Leveling Systems

 

Let's start with the core of the game and try and come up with a way to event or script the Persona system itself. To refresh peoples memories or to give others a general idea of what I'm looking for, here is a refresher on the Persona system.

 

Persona's are a representation of the psyche of the person who summons them given form. They are used to do battle against demonic creatures known as "Shadows".

 

From a gameplay standpoint. A Persona is basically an additional layer of any member of the party. A characters weaknesses against certain types of attacks (Fire, Wind, etc.) is determined by the weaknesses of the Persona. A characters abilities are determined by the abilities of the Persona. The Protagonist is unique in that they have the ability to change Persona's freely as long as they have the Persona they are trying to summon stored in their mind, they are also unique in that they level individually of their Persona's (Persona's gain new abilities at certain levels, and can only have a maximum of 8). Persona's are collected through post-battle sequences called Shuffle Time, and the protagonist can store a limited number after which one must be discarded in order to gain a new Persona, or the Persona gained must be discarded instead. The protagonist can have only one of any type of Persona at any given time, and if they acquire the same Persona again they disappear. Acquired Persona's can be taken to the Velvet Room to be fused into new Persona's, or be registered within the Persona compendium in their current state so that they can be re-summoned at a later time for a small fee.

 

We'll deal with Persona fusion, compendium, weaknesses, etc. is something we can deal with later. For now, let's concentrate on the Persona system itself.

 

Notes

 

- We only need to have Persona's be separate from the player, party members do not level independently from their Persona like the Protagonist does.

 

- Persona's also have statistics. Strength (which I assume affects the effectiveness of physical abilities), Magic (Spell Damage), Energy, Agility (Effectiveness of Dodging), and Luck. I have no idea what Energy and Luck are for, do any of you?

 

- As for artwork, I'm planning to retrieve the basic artwork for each Persona from the SMT wiki and then imprint them onto blank Tarot cards. Whenever a Persona is summoned (an ability is cast), I'm planning to have a blue flash of light and the card show up on screen to indicate this. There will be no tarot card when the player switches Persona's, just the flash.

 

- We'll need a "Persona" option in the menu for the player to select their Persona before going into battle.

 

- Changing Persona's should not change Health, Spirit, Attack Damage, or Equipment of the Protagonist.

 

Theories and Ideas

 

My basic idea for implementation of this system is to have each Persona actually be an actor. All of the party members will have unique actors for their Persona's, but for the protagonist, we're going to create actors for each individual Persona they can summon. This way they can level and gain abilities like this.

 

The protagonist himself, as he levels independently from everyone else, I want to have his level actually be a variable that will determine how much health and spirit the Protagonist has during combat. As his health and spirit (Persona's version of mana) shouldn't change whenever he shifts Persona's and should remain a constant.

 

For the actual actor shifting... first of all I plan to be using Yanfly's Battle System for this base, so we'll assign the face graphic for each Persona to be identical... I don't really have any idea how I'll accomplish this. I need to brainstorm on this a bit. Because, of course, we can't equip a variable, and if the Persona is an actor I don't know how shifting won't affect Health, Spirit, Attack Damage, or the Equipment as all of these are features of the actor themselves.

 

What are all of your ideas on this subject? I'll brainstorm and fiddle around with Ace a bit more and see what I can come up with.

[LordSquirrel 150]

Hey there. I'm a massive persona fan as well (Twenty plus playthroughs on 3 and 4). I believe the books, and social links can be done simply through the use of variables. We can just set up a variable named, Chie Satonaka Social link, and have it where her first social second social link event doesn't happen until the variable is at 20, until it reaches that point value every time the MC goes somewhere with her it will only be a non-dialog scene. Book can be done the same way, if a book need to be read five time for the attribute change then we set an event that checks to see if the book variable is a at five, if not then the text will just say "There is still a few chapters left... You decide to finish the book later." The non-combat attributes can be done in the same way.

Edited February 16, 2014 by LordSquirrel

[+ Novem 344]

Yes, that seems pretty reasonable and easy to do. I'm pretty sure it's going to require some minor scripting to create menus for these elements though. Luckily, I don't see that being exceptionally difficult.

 

Really the most difficult thing that needs to be put together for this is the Persona system itself, especially in regards to the Protagonist and a sort of actor shifting mechanic that I'm not sure how to implement or pull off. If there's any part of this system that needs script help, I think that's it.

[LordSquirrel 150]

I'm not much of a scripter unfortunately. The other thing that may require some scripting is shuffle time. I'm not sure how we'd do the animation for the cards, or how we'd randomize them.

Edited February 16, 2014 by LordSquirrel

[+ Novem 344]

Flashes of light and sound effects are easy, and the card itself is easy as a show picture command. I'm going to of course keep actual animation to a minimum. Randomizing the cards is also as easy as a random number command, and assigning each card a value so that it will display cards based on what value is achieved. Even the number of cards that appears during shuffle time can be randomized by having empty variables where cards don't appear at all if none of the card values are met. I'm going to come up with event demos for some of these systems when I find the time, shouldn't be too difficult.

 

As for the minor scripting necessary for creating the menus, I think my basic knowledge of scripting is enough to put something like that together with a few hours and maybe a little help.

 

The Persona system itself is what is difficult. Though there are plenty of talented scripters on this forum that I am quite sure would be more then willing to provide their assistance.

[LordSquirrel 150]

I meant the animation of the cards floating in a circle before the player gets to choose them. I believe combat rush can be made through the yanfly auto battle script.

[+ Novem 344]

I'll probably just have the cards show up on top of some kind of background. Much easier. The core of the thing is the player picking a card, minimal frills required.

[LordSquirrel 150]

We will probably also need a script menu for the calender. The days themselves can just be variables along with the different day times.

[+ Novem 344]

You're probably right about that...

 

Anyways, shifting gears a little bit, I've been trying to use the database to create the general system of battle for Persona. What I mean is how if you get hit by an element you are weak against, you are knocked down, and after being hit with another attack, you are made dizzy.

 

This is proving difficult to put together. I have the states and elements, but while the database includes the ability to give element rates, it doesn't include the ability to inflict a state when hit by that weakness.

 

Other problems...

 

- There doesn't seem to be a way to remove a state if another is inflicted (transitioning from knocked down to dizzy).

 

- There doesn't seem to be a way to remove a state when the characters turn comes around (getting up after being knocked down).

 

Anyone got some solutions to these problems?

 

NOTE: I did find a script command for "if rate > 1.0", but there doesn't seem to be a way to give actors or classes a feature having to do with scripting, :/

[+ TBWCS 953]

- There doesn't seem to be a way to remove a state when the characters turn comes around (getting up after being knocked down).

 

if you want to remove a state after a turn end, you can check up

  #--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  # * End Turn
  #--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  def turn_end
    all_battle_members.each do |battler|
      battler.on_turn_end
      refresh_status
      @log_window.display_auto_affected_status(battler)
      @log_window.wait_and_clear
    end
    BattleManager.turn_end
    process_event
    start_party_command_selection
  end

on Scene_Battle. First off, you need to determine which skill is it, and remove it. Or you can remove it directly without checking it.

 

Edit:

 

Or you can see the death function and tweak it from there

Edited February 16, 2014 by SoulPour777

[Darkanine 116]

I could probably event the Persona Leveling system and non Combat stat's (I used a similar system in Vintasia), but I can't start today. Also if you need, I can make a SMT/Persona 1 monster recruitment system.

[+ Novem 344]

I could probably event the Persona Leveling system and non Combat stat's (I used a similar system in Vintasia), but I can't start today. Also if you need, I can make a SMT/Persona 1 monster recruitment system.

 

I'm going to be using the Persona 3 and 4 way of doing things, meaning you acquire Persona's through Shuffle Time. As for the rest, that would be brilliant,

 

 

Stuff

 

Rather, after getting downed you're supposed to be sensitive to being attacked again (which would put you into a Dizzy state where you cannot move), but when their turn starts, knocked down is supposed to be removed if they haven't been knocked into Dizzy. What I'm looking for is to remove a state when their (personal) turn starts, rather then when their turn ends. As for dizziness, they are supposed to stand back up the next turn after that, removing their opportunity to attack for one turn.

[LordSquirrel 150]

 

 

Stuff

 

Rather, after getting downed you're supposed to be sensitive to being attacked again (which would put you into a Dizzy state where you cannot move), but when their turn starts, knocked down is supposed to be removed if they haven't been knocked into Dizzy. What I'm looking for is to remove a state when their (personal) turn starts, rather then when their turn ends. As for dizziness, they are supposed to stand back up the next turn after that, removing their opportunity to attack for one turn.

I get the feeling this will be one of the harder parts of the game to make... Anyway. If you need any help with the story hit me up via PM, I would love to help with it.

[Darkanine 116]

 

I could probably event the Persona Leveling system and non Combat stat's (I used a similar system in Vintasia), but I can't start today. Also if you need, I can make a SMT/Persona 1 monster recruitment system.

 

I'm going to be using the Persona 3 and 4 way of doing things, meaning you acquire Persona's through Shuffle Time. As for the rest, that would be brilliant,

I'll see what I can do, i'm only familiar with persona 1 and 2.

[+ Novem 344]

Then you my friend have been missing out on some of the best JRPG's ever made,

[LordSquirrel 150]

Best RPG's period.

Edited February 17, 2014 by LordSquirrel

[+ Novem 344]

Okay guys, I've come up with a sort of compromise for the Persona Summoning and Leveling system.

 

First, the method I've chosen for Persona's uses them as Equipment, specifically Headpieces.

 

Then, I'm using Fomar's Equipment Scripts (Individual Equipment, Equipment Levels Up, and Equipment Skills by Level) to provide them with skills and to slowly increase the stats and benefits they provide. In addition, weaknesses and such are going to be included right in as features of the equipment itself.

 

PROBLEMS WITH THIS METHOD

 

- You can't choose which skills to delete to replace with new skills, as there is no maximum. So, each Persona will instead have a unique skill path of eight skills they learn over their leveling path.

 

- Since skills can't replace skills you'll technically have more then 8 skills, just better versions of them. I'm going to test a solution to this using Fomar's Skills replace Skills. I don't know if it was ever designed to work with the equipment skills, so it needs to be tested.

 

- This doesn't include a Persona Selection in the combat menu. You'll have to use the equip function, the problem with this of course is that you can't change what equipment you are using in battle. I will request a script that allows you to change your Head equip during battle, and of course to play an animation while doing so.

 

BENEFITS OF THIS METHOD

 

- Since Persona's are equipment I'm certain we can use a crafting script to generate fusion.

 

- Weaknesses are inherited from a Persona's features when equipped.

[LordSquirrel 150]

This is actually pretty smart because there has never been a "head" equip slot in the persona series, so it won't be losing out on any of the equipping process. Now if you'll excuse me. I have to go implement those Fomar item scripts in my project.

[+ Novem 344]

Yea I thought I was being pretty clever as well,

[Oasiris 12]

In my opinion, with a project with such grandeur, only custom scripts will get you exactly what you want. And I won't forgive you for going through with it in a half-assed job; I'm a Persona fan too!

 

I realize you're just poking around right now, but that's my belief.

 

Also, I've played around a lot with many Persona themes in my own game (choosing dialogue from options, using Tarot cards, the generally dark theme of P3P, borrowing music), but I found that some things didn't work and cut them out (Social Link-esque party member relationships, silent protagonist, parameters.)

Edited February 20, 2014 by Oasiris

[+ Novem 344]

Using creative methods to achieve similar results is not "half assing" anything, it's actually the exact opposite. I don't need exactly what I want to make a fun game. So far, my project is actually going rather well. I've been having some great ideas on how to change the formula, a really good plot and world, some awesome music selection, a nice shift of theme... I'm actually having a lot of fun, and I think the game I'm making will also be rather fun, especially seeing as I'm not afraid to bring my own new ideas to what makes up the Persona series.

 

And actually, this is very minimalistic for me. My other projects are much more ambitious then this honestly...

 

Sure, none of them have necessarily come out well. But it's a learning process, I'll get there eventually.

[Naridar 9]

For persona changing, how about you create a skill for equipping each persona and having a persona add that particular skill when equipped (e.g. a skill called "Change to Metatron")? Make those skills be of a different skill type so you can set up a seperate command in battle for them. You can use Yanfly's battle commands script for this purpose and Yanfly's Instant cast so that changing personae won't waste your turn. You can also have the skills cost TP if you aren't using it for other things, making the player think more about if and when to switch personas.

[+ Novem 344]

Ooh, inventive idea. I didn't realize you could use skills like that.

 

Though I would like our protagonist to be able to switch Persona's once per turn regardless of anything, meaning the default TP system would be useless to me. BUT, if we add in Nicke's TP manager, things change. I'll set the Protagonist to have 1TP (though I'll call it PS, Persona Switch), and I'll have it so that each Persona regenerates the Protagonist's TP once a turn. Though that will of course only be necessary if the Protagonist doesn't take a hit that turn.

 

Brilliant idea, thanks Naridar.

[SpookyMothman 361]

I'm going to say something unpopular here: I don't like Persona 3. If you ask me, all the characters were, well... boring. That, and their skill balance was all out of whack, but I digress.

 

Persona 4, on the other hand... honestly, the only big thing I don't like about it is that some of the boss battles take WAY too long (I'm looking at you, Shadow Mitsuo). Where Persona 4 really shines for me is the characters. I like all of them, and love a few (Chie).

 

I like making characters. So Obrusnine! When you start getting to the characters, I'd love to see some of your ideas. Maybe I can lend a hand or two.

[LordSquirrel 150]

I like making characters. So Obrusnine! When you start getting to the characters, I'd love to see some of your ideas. Maybe I can lend a hand or two.

*Coughs awkwardly to the side*