Top five mistakes you see in games?

[reido66 1]

I only have 3.

 

3. No-thought story - When I play an RPG or even an action adventure game, I want a deep immersive plot and world. I don't want things to be straight forward, like "go to this place, then here, then here.". What makes it worse is if there are a set number of items you need to collect to open the door to something, Some games can make it work, but if you are relying on it as the main base for your story, then you should re think some stuff. Thats not to say collectables are bad, for example, in my project you collect "data fragments" of a character's memory. however, it is only an optional side quest.

 

2. - No Sense Of Direction (NSOD) - I have seen this countless times, both in the mapping and story. Giant maps that stretch on...and on...and on...that add nothing to the game and slow down any excitement i was having. I've encountered the same with the story. It may make senese to the developer, but not to me. I am not on the same mental-wave length as the designer and therefore do not know what is happening in the story.

 

1. - Being unfamiliar with RPG Maker - So many times people have started games without planning ANYTHING. I admit I have done this...but it was practice game. Why do you start making a game without knowing why you are making it? Making it up as you go will lead to a much thrown-together feeling game and can possibly lead to NSOD syndrom (see #2)

[Xaiyeon 16]

*Hello im new and this is my first post*

 

Yeah Characters who randomly join you and don't have much of a story to them is kinda pointless.

 

Ally: Im going to join you!

Hero: What? I don't even know you and why?

and the Ally's respones would be somthing like

"Becasue I have to do this" "It's my destiny" "The sound of adventure is right up my street" they will come up with some werid stuff just to join you.

 

I did feel that in Final Fantasy 12, some of the characters story was eh,

 

LOL. I love the part where characters randomly join the group... I try to add a theme, with characters that can connect with certain traits... then choose dialogue carefully... lol... "It's my destiny"...

[odd boy 2]

Well, If it's for me I think I will go with :

 

1) 5 Houses And Little NPC

It's usual in a game there's always this one...Maybe 5 Houses it's just to common in a game...

And there's always a little NPC just says "Did you know?" or something...Actually I think NPC has to be 50 peoples...(Not sure)...

 

2) Fighting Demon Or Bandit

This is just not a common in a game...But "Very" common in a game...

The story is always about Demon or maybe a Bandit....And maybe just added some features and the story like that :wacko:

This is what I always see in a game...In the end they always fight with "Demon"... (Not sure though)...

 

3) Same resources

This is the same as the number 2...The resources...As the tiles, sprites, or something...

Like if there's "Kaduki" then it will be a guy with the googles or something

I don't blame it though Actually I'm using it too but with recolor of course...So it doesn't mean anything to me just pointing that out

 

4) Very-Very Confusing story

This is not a common but I think this is maybe a common too...

The confusing story is about someone join the party without any clear story...

Like this Example :

Ally: Let Me help you defeat the demon king!

Hero: Why? We just meet and you want to help me?

Ally: Because I have to revenge my father!

Hero: Who is your father?

And that's the confusing story...Is there anyone want to join someone company before they know what's the company is?

Like that scenario...Who is his father? And the hero don't know his name yet... ...

 

5) Uninteresting Tactical Battle

Actually this is what I see in a RPG Game... An uninteresting tactical battle...

There's some game that says in a feature section "Tactical battle" and after I try it, It's just the same usual battle...

Just choose the best skill and attack the enemies and heal your party and win the battle...

 

And that's all what I see in many games that I played...

Sorry If there's something wrong with what I says

[sofar 0]

#1 when at a crossroad one direction is impossible :

"I can't get there now" "I'd better go north (i.e when choosing south)" yuk!

 

#2 Games starting with the death of a King/Father

Means poverty to me (hint : can be turned into a running gag)

 

#3 Using crystals as save points

It's just me but I don't get it. Six branches stars are kind of odd too to me too oO

 

#4 Too much blood (on walls, for example)

Hey, is that just to scary us?

 

#5 Mixing Kaduki and regular RTP actors

They don't have the same eyes

 

#Bonus When the game you downloaded was scam

It happens. Not so common, but a mistake and that's #6 I know ^^

[Chaco 1]

First, I want to say I am new to this community and have been working on a personal project game for about 2 years now!! By myself.

 

 

Now, I'll start with my Top 5 list!!

 

1) Storyline

I 100% agree a story needs to be good and not so cliche, I also am making sure to put a lot of effort into motivation. 

Motivation for why a character joins HAS to be more than, "Just cuz!" although I have played some good games where this happens, it's rare for this to attract me in a game. I like when all characters join for a good reason.

In a game like Suikoden I can make an exception, but all the MAIN characters do join for a good reason which is good enough for me.

 

2) Allow the player some imagination for pete sake!

 

It's like this, I HATE when a game concludes with everything hunky dory, and you know every detail about every character with absolution!! 

Where the heck is the fun in that!?

I have a significant issue with this. I believe games (especially modern games) hold our hands WAY to much. 
I like to use my imagination and my brain when I play a game to figure out FOR MYSELF what happens next!

 

Yes, you need a story to follow through and finish, like the main antagonist has to be "defeated" by the protagonist (or vise-versa) you need a beginning, middle, climax and end. 

But that is it, you do not need to reveal that the male lead is now hooked up with the female lead, the world is peaceful for ALL ****ing TIME, and that nothing bad every happens again, also let's as well tell you the details of all the other characters lives, including NPC's no one cares anymore about!!

 

Instead, why not leave us to have a little fun with our imaginations and try to figure out who ends up with who ourselves?

Okay, I know the internet is littered with horrible fanfiction, that's not what I'm talking about. Simply give US the benefit of the doubt that maybe, us gamers are not stupid.

 

3) Tutorials

NO. Just no. If I want an hour long tutorial I'll read the instruction manual! 

Please, PLEASE don't do this in your games, and I am seeing this WAY to much in professional games as well.

 

First, give us the option to skip a tutorial! That should be rule #1.

 

Second, if your game is complicated enough it needs a tutorial, make it optional to read or listen to one, and ask if the 

player is smart enough to figure this stuff out.

 

Megaman is one of the best platformer games ever, and what happens in that game? You start out and you have no idea what to go, but the game TEACHES YOU in a subtle way. For example, when you begin you go right, because, there is a wall behind you so you know you HAVE to go right, and that is the games way of saying "You need to go right not left" but, a message or NPC doesn't tell you this, you figure it out in what's called a "learning curve!"

 

4) Bad Voice Overs

 

Please, don't. If you are going to have voice overs do it right. Your game doesn't have to have perfect anything, but, voice overs yes, they have to sound good. Because, if they don't you will literally ruin the experience. 

 

I wish SO much that some RPG's had the ability to turn off voice overs! Some voices are so monotone and emotionless.

 

5) Controls

Something I am shocked no one mentioned, but, seriously make your game feel right in the hands of the player.

Make sure we know the X button does this, or the arrows DONT move you! D: Cuz there would be confusion if suddenly

the A button is what propels you forward!

 

Also...

I want to say something, as someone who is "just starting" in the RPG Maker world.

 

It's hard, if not impossible to make a perfect game, but, I am making a game alone anyway, and some of

the issue's I've run into personally are things which are unavoidable.

I want to go over some things which posters above this have said "annoy" them about games, and state why maybe

your not quite thinking about the developer in all this.

First, some of you act as though making these games is to impress YOU, the person who will play it. Yes, this is partly the fact, but not all of it. I am making a game right now, which is a Suikoden fangame, so my goal for this game is too honor the original series and hopefully make a game I personally can be proud of which I believe is the true goal of a lot of us.

However, I can be proud of my game without making my own music, sprites and what not, as long as I do it RIGHT.

 

Therefore, there are...certain things I simply cannot do on my own, and making a team is to difficult for me as I do

this as a hobby and don't make money off it and I know no one who wants to help.

Such as making my OWN music. I cannot make music, I'm not talented in that area, and I do not know anyone who would be willing to make my game music for free. What I do is find amazing music which fits the theme of the game, the scenario, and the situations. I don't just take music from Final Fantasy games either, I find music from great games like Suikoden, Dark Cloud and other games which some people may not know, they are not all RPG music either!! I do also use some songs from Final Fantasy, because, that series has some great music and that cannot be denied.

If it annoys you to play a game with music "borrowed" from other games, then don't play my game, because, you'll be pulling your hair out! And I honestly don't care if that pisses you off, because, your being selfish to think everyone on the planet has the resources to make their own music. Not using music from other games is difficult too, and there are people who will recognize any other borrowed music as well.

I think if the music works with the games THEME and it's not misplaced in the game, it's fine. 

 

I read above people saying, don't Mix RTP STYLE and Kaduki style. I think that's wrong too, to a degree!! As long as it's not overdone to the point where OTHER character types are thrown in as well (like having Kaduki, RTP, non-RTP, some other artist, some OTHER artist, ect.) 

And no, this won't work in a game with a small amount of characters, but, mine has over 50 playable characters!!

You must know, how hard it is to find the right sprites that fit well. Sometimes you have to be a little creative or a little insane to make an idea work, and mixing sprites I honestly don't feel looks as bad as people say. The "eyes are different" sofar said, yes this can in some ways effect things, however, in my particular world I don't think it will since my game has a lot of different races and species of people anyway.

I also don't use any of the RTP heroes though, except the bad guys and monsters, since they look cool anyway. (And half of them don't have to look normal anyway)

 

I also say sorry if I offended anyone and if this was to long, but, I really feel passionate about the subject, and I wanted people to know my thoughts. You don't have to agree of course this is all my opinion, but, I think it's important just to mention that you do have to take the developers ideas into account as well when you play a HOMEBREW game, because, we ALL know what it's like.

 

[Darkanine 116]

No offense to anyone,just my thoughts

1.Side view battle with front-view enemies

I've stated I like front view to side view once or twice,but I can get behind a side view battle system(pun?)but I really,really REALLY hate it when they use front view battlers,its just lazy,ugly and makes it feel like the creator just used side view cause everyone else was using it,idk it just rubs me the wrong way

 

2.Annoyingly anti-RPG plots/You're not a hero,just a guy

I have nothing wrong with creative and original plots,but sometimes when I look at thread post for games with plots like "You're not saving the world,you just want money/monetary reward" it just annoys me,it gives me,the player no real motivation it doesn't build quite as much tension that other plots could have,hell even vengeance could work more.

 

3.No character back story

(No offense)I just played a VXACE game earlier,the game itself was okay but one thing bugged me,the main character was friends with all the party members,but we where never told how they became friends,when they became friends,or even general back story knowledge.

 

4.Overly satirical "joke games"

I know I know we all like satire once and awhile,but if its done wrong,its done VERY wrong,what makes good satire(IMHO)is a story that's consistent but still funny,such as Charles Barkley shut up and jam:Gaiden,as strange as it was,it had a plot it sticked to,using basketball us save the world,it doesn't make fun of everything wrong with the genre,it makes fun OF the genre and how people judge the genre,I.E dark steam punk=amazing world

 

5.Its a RM game,not your magnum opus 

This issue is mostly for flash games/beginner projects who constantly brag in the description of the game and say "In this fantastic open ended RPG",just stuff like that irks me.

[Chaco 1]

I agree with Sgt. Twilight Sparkle in all those points as well, especially the Side Battle with front facing enemies since the enemies should be facing the characters. It's lazy as anything, even I can find side facing enemies!! XD

[MagicMagor 0]

Now lets see.

 

1. Too much story, not enough game

A lot of people in the maker-communities think that story is the most important part of a rpg. While i don't share this view i can understand and tolerate it. Making a story-driven game is fine, if your story is good and well told. However sometimes the author is so focused on the story they forget that they are making a game, not writing a book.

If all i care about is the story, then playing a game would not be my choice - i would read a book. And as an author, if all i want is telling a story, then i should write a book and not complicate matters with making a game.

A game in general, and rpg-maker games in specific have several kinds of interactivity, because thats the point in games. Moving on maps (basicly the decision of where to go next), buying and selling stuff, the equipment and of course the battles. Sometimes an author forgets that these things exist and that they should be fun.

 

This mistake can show itself in bland boring or even unbalanced battles, meaningless items and equipment and too much linearity.

Maybe some people like playing a rpg-maker game as an interactive book, i don't.

 

2. Too long cutscenes

This mistake can often arise in games, that also make mistake #1, however even if the gameplay is well thought out and fun this mistake can happen.

Is my attention span too short, that i can't follow a 5-10 minute cutscene? I don't think so. I could follow the cutscene but i just don't want to. The reason is the same as in #1, i want to play the game, not watch a movie.

In general, in the later parts of the game, the cutscenes can become a bit longer. Because then i'm already invested into the game and know it's fun. The climax of the story can be the longest cutscene of the game, but just don't overdo it.

 

3. Very... very... slow and/or long menu navigation

I once played a rpg2k-game where calling the custom made menu took around 2 seconds. Also once a menu-item was picked i also had to wait another 2 seconds while the menu was fading. Coupled with the fact, that i had to call the custom-menu to enter the normal menu this killed my intent to play the game pretty fast.

I think there is nothing that can kill a game as fast for me as bad controls. But rpg-maker games already have a decent control-system already laid out, so it is normaly never a problem. Unless the author decided to make a challenge out of his menu design.

 

4. Balancing issues

Balancing is hard so i doub't there is a game with no balancing issues. That's why this is only number 4 and not higher on the list. With balancing issues i don't just mean battles, that are too difficult or outright impossible (and where you ask yourself if the author even played his own game once), but also issues where there is no variety in the battles. Because spamming attack ist just too effective or where every actor has one super-powerfull spell/skill, which is the best choice in nearly all battles.

I like choices in the game. And at the basic level there a two choices i can make in almost any rpg. That is the choice of equipment and the choice of what action i take in the battle. Just make sure there is actually a choice and not just selecting a no-brainer answer all the time.

 

5. Bad dialouge

Because i value gameplay a lot more than the story, i have probably a higher tolerance for story-related problems than most other people here on the forums. Therefor a bad or lack of character motivation isn't that big of a problem for me.

But one story related issue i can't stand is badly written dialouge. This doesn't just cover spelling or grammatical errors, but also flat and boring speech as well as overly mysterious or mythic ("Destiny awaits me" - or something like that).

Thankfully for the most part of the game i'm not reading dialouge, so my tolerance for this is also quite high.

[magic2345 252]

Chaco, I applaud you for reviving this topic, I find this discussion really important.

 

My top 5 mistakes are probably more or less the same as everyone else, but I'll state my opinions on a topic I feel strongly about.

 

Linearity

Now, some people stated that games should not be linear, we should think for ourselves where we should go. This could sometimes lead to a very confused and not to mention frustated players. At least drop a hint or two, and make it realistic. For example, I just played Suikoden 2 (I'm replaying it btw, tooons of fun). After a cutscene we were told to gather information. Now, where should we go gather these so called information? Why, the bar of course!! Everyone knows bars in RPGs are sources of informations and plot advancing scenes! Well, I didn't know, why? Because from the start of the game, there was never any reason for me to go to the bars, make that any bars. In other towns, people in bars doesn't really tell you anything. The NPCs there just sort of tell you what they're doing and sometimes even their lifestory. And so, I wandered the continent for this so called information. Until in the end I just consulted with a walkthrough.

 

What I'm getting at is, please don't make the player search the town for something ambiguous and oddly placed. At least give them something to work on. I don't want to enter a town without any idea what to search for, search the whole town for the story advancing scene, and then search the town again. Being forced to talk to every NPC in town is not my idea of fun. Unless of course, there's something in it for me, like sidequests or something.

[Dark Horseman 93]

On the topic of linearity, we should take take hints from WRPGs setting waypoints and objectives. There are a few scripts that let you have a compass or bring up a small map to see where to go. Allow players who want to blow past the content the option to do so by following this while still making open areas to explore. It's their loss for missing the extra the content, but just having the extra areas there gives a great deal of immersion and freedom.

[Bunni89 85]

Some of my opinions probably won't be very popular, but meh. I'm not saying I'm 100% correct! XD

 

1. No Tutorials (if necessary)

This is a BIG thing for me. It comes off as stupid and shoddy for a game to not even bother explaining the basics, especially in an RPGmaker game where there isn't even a manual. Even in regular games- the ideal should be "let's make it possible to play without a manual". It's horribly frustrating when you pick up a preowned game without a case and thus you have no clue what to do. (Most people don't have enough patience to blunder around trying everything- the initial impression of a game can be enough to turn you off within an hour)

The necessary point is to give tutorials IF NECESSARY. No goddamn stupid "hold analog stick to move" stuff. If anything is self explanatory or standard for the genre, don't bother. But if anything is very new, contrary to the genre or requires a lot of strategy- that's when you're gonna turn people off if they don't have the basic information able to use it to its fullest extent. For example I recently started playing Wild Arms 3- there is a bar on my screen saying TP. It randomly depletes sometimes after battle, seemingly regardless of what I did. It doesn't seem to do anything, and nothing happens when it runs out. This is a moment where something really should have been EXPLAINED!

Tutorials don't even have to be intrusive, they can be merely a single line of dialogue, a basic quest or even just setting things up so the player can infer what they're meant to do. For example lets say you add elements of your battle system over time. The player begins with basic regular attacks, after a while of getting used to that there's a change and now we get a combo meter, which appears in a special battle, fully-charged and with nothing more than a "Combo meter gives a boost to Common Skills!!" popup before it leaves you to unleash hell with it! (Mana Khemia had something like this but it took too long to get there)

You can even tutorial people on basic stuff like unusual battle abilities, merely by having an enemy use them. Quite often players will overlook certain attacks because they assume they'll work like they usually do in games, for example "oh, poison is always worthless". So it can pay off to stick that ability on a foe so they get first hand experience of how good it is. (Same with common strategies, like maybe have a weak foe that debuffs your defense for five turns then kills you in one shot with the most pathetic attack possible. Instant "wow, debuffs actually reduce stats by A LOT!" moment.)

Skippable tutorials are great, but if you make your tutorials natural, short and unobtrusive it shouldn't even be necessary.

 

2. No idea where I'm going

This is a general complaint that can be caused by several types of botched design.

Version 1: Confusing Maps. This is when a map is a ridiculous non-interactive maze, or full of samey screens, or has some other sort of gimmick that confuses the hell out of everyone. (For example: those annoying infinately-repeating screens that require you to traverse them in a specific order or else you're stuck forever.) Sometimes this problem can be improved via minimaps or a compass, sometimes it's just unrecoverable. Think before you do this- it's better to actually have a puzzle than just something that slows the player down and bores them to death.

Version 2: Badly hidden things/pixel hunting/misalignment. Basically any situation where you have to find something and it's nigh impossible because of fake difficulty or lazy design. Example: in FF8 I initially quit the game during the "Norg's Hideout" sequence because I couldn't find any sort of exit to a room. Replaying it years later, it turns out the thing I thought was just a blob of metal scenery was a ladder at a terrible angle, and I'd never been able to use it while running around mashing A on every object in the room, because you had to pixel hunt the exact spot where you could select it.

Version 3: General lack of direction. We're talking when you have no clue how to progress at all, so you have to run around talking to everyone, trying everything and hoping somehow you'll stumble upon the answer. Things should ideally unfold naturally in a story, rather than "I have no clue why I'm going to fire mountain or where it is, but surely one of these identical NPCs will tell me".

 

3. Too much game, not enough story

DEAR GOD. This sort of thing can only be pulled off if the game itself is the best thing ever that can make up for the dissappointment. Specifically it's only a problem if your game TRIES to have a story, is MARKETED as having a story and generally it sets me up for a fall. I don't play RPGs for 100 textless levels of fun- you could just market your game as a dungeoncrawler or something, geez. Just don't leave an obvious empty void where a story should be, and act like a story already exists.

An annoying example of this (in my opinion) is Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne. It has a complete excuse plot of a story and yet continues showing reams of sporadic-yet-long cutscenes full of dialogue that is nonetheless NOT A STORY. Everyone apart from you either dies or turns evil, and they never affect the plot whatsoever. The entire game could have just been "tokyo becomes hell, you need to work to invent the next world it will reincarnate into" and then maybe the beating-up-the-guy-who-did-this scene, even though really it still affects nothing. You're mute, you have no allies aside from more mute monsters, none of everyone's blithering nonsense and fighting ever actually has a relevant conclusion and you spend the entire game just doing the game. It would have worked way better if it wasn't a contrived mess of "everyone does stuff and I never even bother to join in, OH LOOK THEY DIED"... it would have actually made more sense that you were travelling between all these places if they just left it as "you decide the next world". (Ergo it'd be a voyage of judging the current one) And the decisions would have had more weight if they were divorced from the stupid characters- all of the options look like they suck because all you get shown is a bunch of hypocritical sociopaths perverting thier ideals into five different versions of "KILL EVERYONE EXCEPT ME". And the vaguely moral people all die, and then your only options are a bunch of bad endings where you side with the assholes, or a "neutral ending" where you turn back time and restore the human world... with a cliffhanger that it'll all just happen again. Every option is bad.

It's a shaggy dog story of a game. Why did they even bother? I just wanted a fun game about recruiting pet gods and demons and running around in gory lovecraftian temples, there was no need to ruin the already-creepy basic setting with all that overly pretentious cynical angst. It's like if someone stood next to you all day at your birthday party, yelling "YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY". Unnecessary, badly done, not even entertaining.. and it ruins the whole thing. I like a good story, but no story is better than a bad one.

More mainstream examples: the non-plots of all early RPGs. They were good at the time because the gameplay was new and exciting. Nowadays they're rightfully recognized as snoozefests and sadly it brings down the entire game.

 

4. Story, but no worldbuilding/characters

This is the important bit. A tiny story with good character concepts, dialogue and world is better than a long one that's a pile of cliches or one of those hollow stories like in the last point. Even a cliche story can be good if you make an effort to immerse the player and make them relate to the characters. Conversely the most epic story concept will suck ass if it's delivered in a terrible way.

Personally I eat up fun casts of charas that act like a real group of friends- with good relationship and interaction, fun dialogue and equal focus. The sort of cast that just takes up residence in your brain and writes itself, inspiring loads of fanfic and the like. People expect a game character to show you most of thier personality throughout the story- enough to understand them. So if you're vague and stick strictly to the plot with zero character-establishing moments, the player will just assume everyone is utterly flat and boring like they look.

And worldbuilding is necessary to make a player go "Gosh, I really want to explore this place!" Again, even a cliche world can be interesting if you really think about how it works and bring some of your own ideas to the table. It feels more authentic! "We can use magic because of magic crystals" just seems like a plot point- "magic crystals are formed from reincarnated souls of an ancient civilization and an evil corporation is manufacturing them as an energy source" is way more interesting and has potential to drive a story. But don't stop there- think about "what would the world be like if this were true?" How would characters experience life differently because of it? How can you convey this to the player?

Word of warning- don't go nuts with irrelevant info. And show, don't tell. Show the characters interacting, don't just say "Squall is a lone wolf but he really does care about people" if he never acts that way and it comes out of nowhere when he gets a love interest. Show parts of the world- don't just say "monsters are the souls of the dead that couldn't go to the afterlife" if you aren't prepared to back it up with something like a purification ritual cutscene, a realistic religion involving this "farplane" and integrated story roles for several "unsent" that help explain the concept. Always assume that the player will just gloss over info if it's presented in a boring factfile manner with no indication that it'll ever become relevant. (How would they guess that breaking the Sealstone would cause monsters to attack the village if it never came up except for as part of NPC dialogue, and in fact it's never ever been shown to banish monsters at any point in the story. Maybe it even got scratched before and nothing happened, because it wasn't the right plot moment- THIS IS A BAD WAY TO HANDLE CONTINUITY)