Class ideas/theories, Equipment idea

[AlexLogie 1]

So here are my current, still may be changed class ideas

 

Warrior/melee branch : Stalled atm but looking for a way to go down multiple forms of this from a swordsmen, to a dual wielding swordsmen, an axmen to beserker, or an infantrymen(sword but medium gear, not heavy yet) to a knight(heavy gear)

 

Holy/healer brancher: I'm actually asking for help here. I want it to be at least branched once, so one can either choose a mix of holy based magic or be a pure healer, or a mix of both going down one of those 3 branches ect..

 

Magic branch : http://oi59.tinypic.com/20rk8eq.jpg

 

Ranger branch : http://oi58.tinypic.com/2mg4hew.jpg

 

Shadow branch: http://oi60.tinypic.com/2hxwzsw.jpg  I feel its incomplete, but many suggestions would be wonderful.

 

Just passing this idea along, does this catch anyone's eye?

 

I mean I've always found, in many medieval RPG such as fire emblem, the classes just seemed... so straight forward and ends too quickly. I'm going to be giving people the full on option to choose which branch, go down what one they want for their hero, and all of their followers(once I figure out how to bring more than 4 into a battle) I've been writing a script for it at least.

 

That way they could have their entire rpg style of play they want using the 6 characters you've able to obtain at once. I will be allowing up to 50 followers, which are when you dismiss them, they will go back to get picked back up. so you can only bring in 6 to combat with you, but have 50 available.

 

So can you imagine, you want to play the game, with an entire warrior class line up, an army. Or hey, bring in an entire group of shinobi, maybe you're a mage's guild and your a wandering pack of mages, or hey you could be that rag tag group of mix, have multiple different classes from branches all around.

 

There are some mounted units too, such as the scout and bowknight, as well as the mage knight. Will also be making 2-3 mounting units in the warrior branch.

 

Which brings me to my next idea.

 

Mounts are an item. An equippable item using Fomar's equipment slot script, and a script I'm writing to add onto a protocol for unit walkabout being changed based on if you select the horse.(I may have to scrap that idea, because with actor creation, that is currently...way too many. I have right now 110 faces, and 110 bodies to choose from right from creation)

 

 

 

 

all in all, is what I am doing too much? Too overwhelming for the player? Or is this the kind of full on large customization able gameplay people would want? Does it draw anyone's attention? Or should I rehaul my entire idea. 

[Thebigzumawinz 14]

you could instead of having a lot of classes that fill similar roles in the party just have a skill tree. It would both make it easier on you but it would also allow you less work in the long run instead of having data for fifty different class changes instead of what should be 3. take the mage for example which i am basing this off of because it has too many classes. the conjurer, the arcane mage, and the elemental mage could be the final classes but each with different skill "trees." to pick your skills from. Although this is assuming this is a regular rpg and not a tactical rpg. Yes I love having many classes in rpgs but they have to fill roles differently than each other. If you want to have different magic classes sure but make sure they fill different roles and act different. Take the fighter and barbarian from DnD. They are both tanks right? to some extent yes. But you don't play a barbarian like a fighter because they play their role completely different. The barbarian has tons of hp so he can charge in axe spinning while your can have your fighter dawn a shield and walk in with his armor adsorbing all the blows. 

[Kilravok 27]

Several of those "higher"classes sound more like skill specialisations.  It would make no sense to turn them into separate classes.  Especially on the Archer......Scout, Sniper, Salvo, the different bow types.....that are skills, not classes.

And I might be a bit OCD here but for consistency, if you use the greek term for fire magic (Pyromancy), then you should use the greek terms for the other elements (Hydromancy, Aeromancy, Geomancy, .....).

 

But really, most of those class separations are redundant.

[Fhizban 96]

I think you already got a good start, I like the way you planned it. Sounds like a big complex game, maybe having 50-100 chars available to choose from, is a bit too much, but i get your idea. Also the mounts idea sounds very unique - you should really add that.

 

Actually, for a game that big and complex (with a heavy focus on "army" management). I would recommend what Thebigzumawinz said: Maybe use multiple skill trees instead of classes at all. All characters start from a base point and branch out into different directions from there.

 

For a regular RPG; using classes is just fine. Im having similar problems with my game regarding classes/branches/tiers. So I decided for typical "roles" as found in most MMO's and then added hybrid classes to spice up the mix a bit.

 

• Tanks (High defense and soaking damage, also good at melee attacks)
• Melee Damage Dealers (less but still considerable defense, strong melee)
• Rogues (fragile but strong melee attacks plus specials)
• Support (Healer-type characters with defensive magic)
• Ranged Damage Deales (Wizards and Archers with low HP but powerful ranged attacks)

Next I added crossover classes like Tank/Melee or Wizard/Support to spice up things a bit. This leads to a total of 15 classes in my game. All characters are derived from that class selection. The rest is done via skill selection and specialization.

 

So, it can all be boiled down to just 5 core classes in my game, with 10 hybrid classes mixed in to make things more interesting.

 

What I want to say is that you don't need a massive selection of classes, it all comes from their specializations and skill trees (development choices). I could even imagine a game using just 3 classes (or none at all when you make just one big skill tree that branches out into different directions).

Edited July 7, 2014 by Malagar

[AlexLogie 1]

A lot to go over, you've given me a new set of ideas. Thank you guys, also yeah, sorry about the greek inconsistency, I couldn't remember it at the time I was writing it down.  I think I'll be able to do this a special way then. Divide it up into a few classes, and do the skill tree thing(Though I'll have to figure out how to script that one) I'm using Hime's actor creation, I plan to allow people to have full on character creation ability here. Pick their face,name and body to use. Then turn around and choose their class

 

The style of rpg this will be just a regular rpg. I wish I was talented enough for a tactical one such as fire emblem (my idol game).  In the end though there is some tactic to this. like I do plan on seperating 'physical damage' into multiple categories "hack,slash,stab,piercing"  as well as all the magic will be seperated. Multiple enemies will have some resistances to different elements or different kinds of attacks. Take a zombie for example, weak to fire magic and hacking damage. Some tactics here, cause mid game I plan to make this difficult if you decide to make all your characters a sword swinging warrior. 

 

Which now, it brings me to the final point, if I'm going to make a skill tree, its something I've never personally been great at thinking up. Any ideas of how to go about it? Should I simply make only 5 classes (Warrior,Mage,Healer,Ranger,Rogue) and go on from there with skill trees and a possible stat point gain per level up, which would allow one to perfectly build up their style as they wish. Some skill tree options would obviously unlock special abilities, new equipment, availability to use a mount, dual wield, harness new weaponry, i.e late down the road this mage wants to use  a sword, and now they can play, acting like a spell sword.

 

Idk if I'm allowed to ask this but does anyone know of a good guide to go by for the class design and stat point gain? I mean I am really digging the skill tree option you have suggested to me guys. I think that combined with stat gain per level + additional points, allowing one to build their style up as they choose. Gaining skills and special abilities by choosing a skill from the skill tree would make an excellent tactical vantage point within the game. Especially when we come up to my interactive bosses that I have planned and coded in.

[Thebigzumawinz 14]

i would say look at DnD for a good baseline of classes because they have the base tank, range, dps, support, and rogues. it shows you a few different options for your standard classes. I only say DnD because i'm showing how each similar classes are different.

[AlexLogie 1]

Indeed. I've got the classes set up now, with prior suggestions. Already in the works for skill trees. Though now a dilemma has appeared. I'm going to have to rework the entire stat setup. Cause it'll be getting stats via level up as normal + get stats via stat points on each level, to allow classes to flucuate and one to form their own, i.e take mage and bolster attack, well, now they end up spell sword style ectz... or hey, lets focus all stat points in defense as a warrior class, and become a tank. 

 

any good guides on starting/ending stats? I kinda don't want a 9999hp being possible. In fact, I'm wanting a general, average hp no stat points applied to HP, end up roughly 1000. I'm thinking mana would be half that, more if mage obviously. 

[Anderson88 26]

I think a great system for stat/skill growth would be a skill grid like Final Fantasy X or Path of Exile. There would be different starting points for your Tank, Melee DPS, Knife/Fast DPS, Mage, and Ranged characters, and you could make a huge amount of customization by making the sections for each class very large and branching out. With this, you could even have players hybridize them to their liking. For example, if you wanted to make your Bowman learn some healing magic, you could eventually crawl through the grid and enter part of the Mage's section. Or if you wanted your Swordsman to pick up archery, you could have him move to the Ranged section. Of course, this would not be very "grid point" efficient, which helps balance out the game to keep characters in their intended class as the player is discouraged from wandering around the grid and picking up less useful skills.

 

I think that if you have a whole army of characters, like 50, you should give each character their own perk. Maybe one archer has +10% accuracy, while another has +10% chance to find hidden items. Or maybe one tank is 10% better at guarding, while another has +10% strength.

 

You should also keep in mind how the 44 characters in reserve get experience points and level up. If they fall behind your preferred 6-man party, they'll never get used aside from when the character decides to swap one in and "powerlevel" them.

[AlexLogie 1]

the intention for the 50man team is to be able to try any number of combinations possible i.e 5 mages, 5 warriors, 5 rangers, 5 rogues, 5 monks ect... 1 of each, maybe 2 of warriors, 2 mages, and 1 healer ect.. but I do get your point. 

 

I think I'll go with that skill grid idea, though I have no way of coding such a thing. I'm just not at that level yet. Do you know of any already made?

[Nekotori 739]

I agree with the skill grid but like in FFX it might end up having all your characters having the same skills and stats late game :3 FFXII international version License Board is kinda ideal if you made it's function as same as the Sphere Grid (FFX). 50 characters is alot but it's your choice, if you want to lessen the characters you might want to consider FFTactics job system for a change

[Anderson88 26]

http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/8301-crystal-engine-%E2%80%93-sphere-grid/

This is a script for Final Fantasy X's Sphere Grid (though in my opinion I like Path of Exile's better xD)
 

Anyway about a point I forgot to mention earlier...

 

Each class should have its own base stats, and then be slightly tweaked based on the character's build, traits, etc.

So if a warrior's base stats is as follows... (In my games, I had actually made ATK and DEF entirely dependent on equipment, while changing magic attack to Strength, magic defense to Magic, and luck to double over as Magic Defense. I like this a lot more than default, so I'll use it in my examples. Hopefully, it's easy to understand!)

HP: 100
MP: 10
STR: 8
MAG: 2
AGI: 5
LUK: 3

Maybe if you had the fast and small guy as a warrior, his stats might be like this:

HP: 95
MP: 11
STR: 7
MAG: 3
AGI: 6
LUK: 4

With the slightly higher magic stat, he can be a very good candidate to slide around the grid to find the Mage side, and become a spellblade-type fighter.

 

And if you had that musclehead guy...

HP: 110
MP: 9
STR: 9
MAG: 1
AGI: 5
LUK: 2

With the buffed up HP, he could switch to become a tank with very good strength.

 

Personally I prefer to have small stat values and adjust the formulae accordingly. Especially in a "sphere grid" type of ability/stat growth allocation method. It makes it easier to track how much of a stat characters will have, especially if your nodes on the grid give, for example, +1 Strength, as opposed to +17 Strength with higher numbers.

In my opinion, if you can manipulate the formulae to have comfortable effects coupled with balanced enemy stats, there is no real reason for stats to grow so high.

 

In Final Fantasy X, you could eventually have everyone obtain every single node on the grid, but in Path of Exile, it's difficult to level up and you only get one point per level up, so you have to choose the path on the grid very carefully. This is also where you have an advantage with the 50 characters, as if one doesn't exactly turn out the way you had hoped, you can just try again with another one of the type.

 

Edit: I've never played FF12 (sadly!), but now that I see the License Board, that could work out nicely too. 

There's a script out for that as well. http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/8660-crystal-engine-licence-board/

Edited July 9, 2014 by Anderson88

[AlexLogie 1]

A lot to take in but I've tinkered with the skill tree thing. I'm not going to allow one actor the ability to have everything, don't need anything going god mode on me anyways + That'll make for some really tough doppelganger bosses which I've implemented already. 

 

though I do have a request. Anderson. Where did you learn such tight skills on the stat layout like that? I mean I really dislike the default 5000-6000hp stuff, with 100's of everything. Idk if I have to even edit the base script for combat if I make numbers that low, but that indeed is the ideal stat layout I like and would like to make a base layout of all 5 of my classes this way, which can later be developed differently through the skill tree & level ups. 

[Nekotori 739]

http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/25461-i-have-an-idea-for-a-one-person-party-rpg/

 

You can try the point system like in Ragnarok Online for the stats

[Anderson88 26]

Well, you just have to try things out as you go. Look for what clicks, and keep it clicking.

Giving characters an equal total number of attributes doesn't always equal balance. Some attributes have higher impacts than others, like Strength, for example. In most cases, you would choose one point of Strength over one point of Luck, right? It takes a lot of playtesting to make sure everything is balanced. Of course, you should just try to get started and balance things out once there's enough stuff to change.

 

Keep in mind, if you're using a tree like the Sphere Grid to gain stats and abilities, it isn't the best idea for levelling up to have a big impact other than giving you a point to use in the grid (or maybe a couple HP and MP), because you fall into that awkward "middle" stage where you have some degree of personal customization, but levels still mostly dictate a character's outcome.

 

What I would probably do is to give two points each level to put into the grid, along with two base points to allocate at level 1. So at level 50, you would have a total of 100 points in the grid. From that point on, leveling up would give you one point. So 149 points for each character at max level (if 99).

Really though, it all depends on how you make the grid. The more points you give, the bigger the grid has to be. You'll just have to adjust it to work.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention. A lot of MMOs have this "issue". When a character has a certain number of abilities or something that you put "AP" or "SP" into, progress for each character feels extremely slow if you're only given one point (or some other low number of points) per level and levelling up is slow. But when you're given a higher number of points, you should be careful to balance out the options so that players don't just dump all three of their SP into one skill every level until it reaches its cap, and then move on to a next one. (<-That stuff is kind of confusing, but hopefully you know what I mean.)

Edited July 9, 2014 by Anderson88

[Blindga 144]

There is this one thing I did event once that I thought was kind of nifty for something like a 'skill tree' system. It was sort of an idea I based off of Deus Ex: Invisible War.

The player would talk to this sort of 'trainer' to learn certain skills. Each combat role had a certain number of 'fields' they could learn to gain skills. For example: a Knight could learn 'Swordsmanship' 'Slaying' 'Mystic Swords' or 'Paladin' talents. Each talent had a small set of skill trees the player could choose for that character, but only one per talent field.

 

So a Knight character could choose to learn Flaming Blade or Freezing Blade skills from the magical category, but not both. Could choose Dragon or Poison for the slaying talent, but not both.

 

Once the player had chosen a skill tree for that talent area they could then select to learn new skills or improve on existing ones. So a Knight character who had chosen Flaming Blade as his Mystic Swords skill tree could learn things like fire slash or increase his magic attack and fire resistance. Over time, a character could would build up a resume of skills from either specializing in a few talents, or spreading out skill points over all the talents.

 

I feel like this provided a lot of variety while giving the player opportunity to set characters apart from each other. Like one Knight character could have his skill points invested in fire attacks while another used sword techniques. In theory an entire party of knights could all be different with each other having invested points in different skills. Even in the endgame when everyone has a lot of high skills, each character stayed different since they can only learn one skill set from each talent area.

 

I was able to event this along with the help of Yanfly's Common Event Shop script. It was a little clunky, but it worked.

 

It's an idea at least. Can't say much as to how it would work in your game, since fifty characters is more than twice as many as I had planned when I made this idea for my first game.

Hope it helps? Good luck.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Blindga

[AlexLogie 1]

Ight well thanks guys a bunch, a lot to think over and work with. Glad ya'll were able to help me.

[amerk 1,122]

Locked at the OP's request.