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concept Mana Wars Online (crazy concept open for debate)

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<concept> Mana Wars Online - The first true MMO built using RPGMaker VX ACE!

 

(Okay guys before you call me a total idiot, completely insane or outright megalomaniac - please give this thread a chance. I'm writing this because I already tested the waters ok? And yes, I know I should instead be working on my main project...)

 

So, I am experimenting with Efeberk's Online Database Script (here). But as the online functionality is too slow to create a real MMO, I had the idea to create some kind of asynchronous, turn-based game with reduced functionality and a lightweight game system. After adding Galv's Group Manager script (here) as well as YANFLY's Event Shop (here) and Doppelganger script (here) and a few others, this concept arose:

 

1. No story, No Maps, No custom artwork, music or sounds. The whole game actually takes place inside the menu's and the combat scene. So there is no walking around - nothing, get that type of game out of your head for now.

 

2. You start by creating an account, but no character. Each player begins the game with 1000 gold pieces. You can then access only one shop through the menu, where you can "buy" (hire) characters to add to your party. Your party can be quite big, up to 20 people. But you can only add up to 6 characters to your fighting group, the rest stays in your "homebase". You wont be able to buy many guys at the beginning.

 

3. Once you have your party, other menu options appear: Item shops, skill shops and stuff like that. The whole game is built around a big menu scene with lots of shops. There is also a mailbox system and a clan system etc. just like the ones you find in Efeberks online script.

 

4. Besides gold there is also "mana", several types of it (green, blue, black etc.i woudl say maybe 5 up to a maximum of 8). The better weapons, more powerful skills and spells as well as the more advanced classes cost "mana" instead of gold. For example: If you want to add some new "water" spells to your "water mage" you need quite a lot of "blue mana". these advanced items would be crafted by using mana, some shops could sell them as well - for enormous amounts of gold. basically gold is for shoping while mana is for crafting.

 

5. All characters not in your fighting group can be assigned to do other things like healing, crafting or gathering. Gathering is very important, as it will grant you mana depending on the class and level of the character you assign to gather. the game would request a timestamp from the server and mana is gathered only every few hours.

 

6. the characters assigned to your fighting group can be sent on a "raid". this is the most important but also most complicated part of the game. Basically, your heroes attack the heroes of a random opponent that is roughly within your level range. you can only attack his fighting group, not his gatherers. the process is like this:

 

6.1 choose enemy within level and show you a quick summary, then decide if you want to attack or skip.

6.2 if you skip you lose some money but can switch to the next available enemy.

6.3 if you fight a battle starts. in that battle you control your own characters, but the opponents characters are controlled by the built-in maker AI.

6.4 Beforehand, your opponents game client has sent all his character data to the server (this functionality is almost completely available in Efeberks script already).

6.5 when you begin the battle, your game client pulls the data and uses that data to fill clone actors with it (there is a script for this but i have tested my own version and it actually works).

6.6 now YANFLY's doppelganger script creates a enemy group out of the cloned actor data that has the same class, level, skills and equipment as your opponents original characters. this is also technically doable, please note that monsters do not carry equipment - it just modifies their attribute ratings.

6.7 now you fight a regular combat against these "clone actors", where the clone actors are controlled by AI.

6.8 each of your chars has a extra command that can "steal" mana of different colors from your opponent.

6.9 if you win the game you get a bit of prize money in addition to the stolen mana.

6.10 when your opponent lost, his chars are not dead, instead they suffer a bit of HP loss (maybe 10%). this is sent back to the server.

 

7. You can only "raid" once per turn. Your other actions are limited by your mana and money. After using some healing and potions you wont be able to do anything else. While you stay online, your chars do not auto heal or gather.

8. Now there is a "end turn" button, your data gets saved and you can end the game now.

9. while you are gone, there is the chance that you can be attacked by your opponents as well. while "offline" your chars heal themselves and gather mana.

9. After X hours its "your turn again" and you are allowed to raid again. you can "log in" again and do another raid, buy stuff and spend mana.

 

Thats it basically. Add a mailbox, clan functionality, a highscore list, tons and tons and tons of items, skills, spells and classes (the heart of the game - all aligned to elements), as well as some little extras (like crafting) and there you go!

 

Thanks for reading this wall of text, Im now going to look after my brain!

 

cheers

-Malagar

Edited by Malagar

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Ah nice concept.

Maybe X3M can help you out if he is not busy in his boardgame making.

He us helping me out with my game attack rate equations.

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Well this won't be easy. I have already setup a database on my web server and now im working on a little "template project".

 

This project is not huge, I think i cut down complexity at the right points. But it's hard and I won't be able to tackle this all by myself.

 

...

 

Another question is how many elements/mana types to use? And how many classes to start with? Should classes be tied to elements or should each character feature a class as well as a element?

 

A. Barbarians can only be Fire

or

B. The Barbarian class can be of any Element

 

And how is that element determined? Can the player choose it when hiring a new character or should it be done random?

 

I would say most classes should be available to all elements, so there can be White Mages, Blue Mages, Red Mages, Green Mages and so on. Only certain special classes should be limited to a single element (like a Anti-Paladin would always be Black). And, players should be able to choose the element of their classes. Otherwise its unfair. Imagine I save a lot of gold to buy a new warrior and it randomly chooses the one color that im not at all after.

 

Also, how many weapons, armor, items? I would say a lot. This game would be completely built around them. Imagine players keep their characters for a long time, from level 1 all the way up to level 99. There must be lots of stuff to equip and learn throughout these levels.

 

 

Anymore thoughts anyone?

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Elements should be random.

That'll be better as user of a different element styles can cause samsame class to differ and give more flexibility.

Also some can control more than one element and many form a secondary element.

Ground+Water=Wood style element attacks.

Something like that.

Just some thoughts.

Basic elements are 5.

And Yin-Yang element 2.

Totaly 7.

Earth/Ground

Water

Fire

Wind

And somethin I forgot.

Holy

And dark.

7 basic or primary elements.

Secondary can fotm with people who can control more than one element.

And superme people or those who are super strongcan use any primary element.

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I would go only for main elements and have hybrids (that is basically the same what you said)

 

7 is a good number....hmm..

 

Light

Darkness

Fire

Water

Earth (also Nature)

 

but the other two?

 

Air (but very similar to water, could be merged into one)

Metal? (Im not very into this metal/neutral/robotic stuff actually)

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So, If water is also ice and air is also thunder. We have 6 elements now:

 

Light

Darkness

Water

Air

Earth

Fire

 

that should be enough actually, 7 would be cool but thats not a problem.

 

Im currently messing around with efeberks online script and it seems like there is lots of potential. I first have to solve some technical problems regarding the script then I will start turning this idea into an actual game.

 

Now a friend of mine suggested to add something to the game to make it more diverse: constantly fighting and upgrading could become boring after a while. Still have to think about that...

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yep, but its very difficult to invent something that is really unique AND relatively easy to code

 

Well, we also have crafting. Now thats already a feature triangle: combat <> craft <> upgrade

 

I also like to have a few community features like clans etc. But, there could be 1-2 more.

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cool idea man! like a encyclopedia of the most renown heroes of the land, together with stats, equipment and maybe a bit of story/history that chould either be user created or generated from the past victories/losses.

 

this could actually be turned into a high-end version of a highscore table and would give the players something to really fight for.

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well, it I try to cut movement from this game concept (together with maps etc.) because the online script is not really suited for stuff like this.

 

I have to see. maybe you can explore in single player mode (you won't see others). but explore and collect should play a role.

 

also: fights against monsters (not just other players), where you can gain stuff, elements and level up a bit.

 

and: maybe a official arena with league play and a tournament system.

 

something like that.

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Interesting concept. Perhaps the single player mode could be where you send the gatherers to collect the resources and find rare things (gems, coins, magic items, unique weapons, etc.), by fighting monsters and other AI, that could then be used in the multiplayer.

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in car town street. you can set 'attack' team and 'defence' team...

you can explore the world , gathering resource... doing quest..., etc.... with your attack team (while defence team will be the one defending your base if other player attack your base... if you're attacked when you're out exploring... the log will be displayed when your attack team return to base...).

 

also instead making the defence team suffer hp lost... just make the player lost resource (1% gold. like clash of clan, etc). since if the defence team got attacked and defeated many times. it will cause it to weaken and can be attacked by weaker player.

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@estriole good point. This is BTW exactly the concept I am aiming for. I also know a few browser based games that work exactly the same way.

 

So attack team and defense team. noted.

 

Ah yes, and no HP loss, that could become unfair after several attacks. So only resource loss.

 

but, the attack team would lose HP, so you have to return home and rest/heal after a while (and you cannot immediately re-assign them to be defenders).

 

EDIT: A few more thoughts

 

About Equipment, Resources & Crafting

Nowadays its common to have equipment use many prefixes/suffixes and that (like: fiery sharpened giant axe of slaying +12). Especially when players can craft equipment, it just makes sense to have more diverse options.

 

But, I personally dislike prefix items plus they are awfully complicated get right in the maker (there are a few scripts, but they are not 100% perfect).

 

I would rather go with the good old "static" items (like Fire Sword, Giant Sword, Silver Sword, Glass Sword, Coral Sword) and instead have really lots of them. Its much easier to develop and easier to add new items without messing up all the suffix stuff.

 

Its also easier to have a crafting system this way.

 

Finally, crafting resources would be limited to the elements (we have 6 right now, so that would be 6 resources) - there would be nothing else (not quite realistic but who cares).

 

So a "Coral Sword" would require "Water Mana" while a "Fire Sword" would obviously required "Fire Mana" to craft.

 

Really really simple. What do you think?

Edited by Malagar

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@Rush2112 Yep, easy is the way to go.

 

About Map Movement (or the lack of it)

 

In the opening post, I stated that this game could be made without any maps. The players would just navigate menus in order to manage their heroes and frequently enter the combat scene. Why this? Mostly because its technically not possible to show the other players on a map yet. This means, there is no real reason for a game to be centered around "maps and travel".

 

This game concept was actually built around this fact and requires no maps at all to work. I know this sounds lame and boring, but it would be the easiest thing to do that way.

 

Imagine every player controls a "guild of heroes" and those heroes live in a "guild house". now if there are maps, the guild house must be mapped. And of course, it must be able to change and be customizable. Thats way beyond the scope of the project and far too much stuff to maintain online.

 

Now the big question is: How to make a game visually appealing when there are no maps at all?

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ah, this reminds me of mafia wars or something similar to that....

umm, for visual appealing maybe you can refer to any web game like travian, rise of mythos (only that "town maps"), or something similar to that games.

Then makes it selectable with arrow keys instead of clicking with mouse.

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@sokita Yes, this is exactly the concept I am aiming for.

 

Ok, what about using single screen maps with panoramas as background? (Etrian Odyssey did that for towns etc.)

 

And then there could be some menu overlay that you select via arrow keys + enter.

 

Now, where to get free panoramas for that? The maker does not have so many interior/town panoramas.

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I say it's a good choice to mimic etrian odyssey style for backgrounds. So far so good ^~^ but might as well add a shield function for every attack like in Clash of Clans, in Royal Revolt 2 I could attack the same player in my league over and over until I get all his resources due to the lack of shields after each attack. Or maybe a timer that prevents player for attacking. ^~^

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I say it's a good choice to mimic etrian odyssey style for backgrounds. So far so good ^~^ but might as well add a shield function for every attack like in Clash of Clans, in Royal Revolt 2 I could attack the same player in my league over and over until I get all his resources due to the lack of shields after each attack. Or maybe a timer that prevents player for attacking. ^~^

The timer is a good way of preventing abuse, my 2 cents.

Edited by Rush2112

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Well, you won't be able to directly target a player. Instead the game will choose a player in your level range, then you can only accept or skip (same as in Clash of Clans). I think it should be just like in Clash of Clans: A limit on the attacks plus a shield when you get attacked.

 

And, Im actually thinking about ripping the backgrounds from Etrian Odyssey. Most of them are already available on the net (there is a Inn, a Tavern, several shops, a Marketplace and so on). This is a free project (more a "proof of concept" than a game) - I dont think anyone will care. They could also be replaced later on.

 

Some more thoughts:

 

Theme

I have been talking with a friend about the theme of the game. He said, easiest would be to have  a tournament like setting. All players are maintainers of a gladiator stable each and located in a big medieval city (this would explain the city and interior panoramas used, it would also limit the game to that city making the technical side a bit easier). The only problem I have with that is, that is does not really fit the "gather and raid elements" concept anymore. Gladiators gathering mana and then fight in the arena? :-P

 

Plus: He also said, when using a city as central point, there is no real need to go with panoramas. Instead RTP maps could be used, because the city would look exactly the same for every player. What needs to be mapped would be a big city exterior and lots of shop interiors as well as an entrance to the arena - thats all. Have to think about it. (Your thoughts?)

 

Character Classes & Party Size

I want the playable classes to be all equally powerful. It should be done whats possible to balance them. No premium classes or anything. Each time you hire  a new hero, you can choose from the available classes (of course, some of them could be available later than others) and it will cost you 500 gold. Players start with 1 hero and 1.000 gold, so in the beginning each additional hero is really expensive.

 

Now, all fresh heroes start at LVL 1. no matter if the rest of your party is already leveled up or not. So you have to care for the newbies and train them. There could be XP items (very costly) that let you level up your newbies faster. But in the end you have to train them. This training should also be possible via gathering, crafting or defending - not just attacking.

 

There is a limit on the maximum party size, as well as the size of the attack, defense, gather, craft and healing groups:

 

Newgame:

Total Maximum Party Size: 9 Members

Max Attack Group Size: 3

Max Defense Group Size: 3 (minimum 1)

Max Gathering Group Size: 3

Max Craft Group Size: 3

Max Heal Group Size: 3

 

Endgame:

Total Maximum Party Size: 18 Members

Max Attack Group Size: 6

Max Defense Group Size: 6 (minimum 1)

Max Gathering Group Size: 6

Max Craft Group Size: 6

Max Heal Group Size: 6

 

As VXA allows only 4 members in a battle party, a script must be used to modify this (YANFLY provides such a script) - should not be a big prob.

 

Note that you will never be able to put the maximum into all of your group due to the party size limit. You have to think and divide your party members cleverly. There could even be one additional group later (to be decided yet).

 

As you start with 1 hero and 1000 gold. You could (in theory) buy 2 more heroes, so you would have 3 heroes right at the beginning of the game. But then you are left with 0 gold and no equipment. Your decision (personally I would go with 2 heroes and equip them properly instead).

 

Woah, lots of brainstorm. Enough for now. Your feedback please!

Edited by Malagar

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i suggest that you still have maps. but for single player game. explore... hunt... gain level... gain item... etc...

sorta like hero dream / wartune.

then go to guild house / something and connect to net.

 

edit:

you could set defence team before you explore the map. you can still attacked when you explore the map.

some yanfly gab window to show the " x attack you and you lost y gold " would be nice...

Edited by estriole

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