Ver: Full Story Outline - Looking for Suggestions, Comment, and Critique!

[+ Chaosian 617]

Hey again good people of the RPG Maker Forums,

 

Any feel up to reading/critiquing another story concept?

This one, I feel, is my big one - the passion project that first started Tuesday, June 18th, 2011, at 1:04:02 AM. Don't ask how I know that.

The title is a work in progress, and here has a potential working title, because I'd rather not have this post show up if someone Googles the actual name.

 

The story has gone through I don't know how many re-drafts over the following years, but this is the first time I've ever actually written out the whole thing, because it's the first time I've decided to speak publicly about it. I'm putting it out here now in its first ever finished state and am looking for any questions, suggestions, or commends, and honest harsh criticism that you might have. One main question I ask myself is that, because I'll probably only ever get the chance to tell this story right, is RPG Maker the correct medium for this concept? I certainly won't make it my first game, but something, of course, to one day get down and start.

 

Because nobody really has the time or patience to read big paragraphs of somebody else's story I'm going to try to format the story into a series of chewable spoiler chunks, in point form. For those that really just want the gist, I've bolded all the parts pretty vital to the plot and added some TL;DR .

 

Fair warning, it's a bit of an Odyssey and has some materials suitable only for a mature audience...

 

The WAY-BACK-BACKSTORY and SETTING

 

 

 

• Starts with a global cataclysmic event  some time in a cyberpunk future, known as the "Great Flame".
• The city the story takes place in, "Rime", falls into an ice age.
• Rime is split into 2 primary areas, the rubble-filled, ash ridden, snowscape of the surface, and the Ver. The Ver is the massive remains of a city "taller than it was wide", think a cyberton-esque city, comprised almost solely near-space elevator buildings. The tops of the buildings are never shown, as its too cold, the oxygen levels are so low, and winds so high and full of shattered glass.
• A creation myth states that humanity unleashed the Great Flame. The one responsible for the Flame, in-turn created a sort of memetic duty called Catalyst, which gives people uncanny luck, ability, and an inhuman drive - but curses them with the task of ruling the world to ensure humanity's continued survival. As an important note, Catalyst transfers from one individual to another through eye-contact when the first individual is killed by the second. As such there can only be a single Catalyst at a time. The line has never been broken, no Catalyst has ever died of natural causes.
• There is a supposed savior of the people at the time of this apocalypse - who built a series of fallout bunkers and tunnels underground. After this the savior prompty died, there was never a recorded name, gender, age, or even number of individuals.
• These bunkers housed people for several generations, but also contained "the Cylindrical Chamber" and an unknown ancient power inside.
• After a number of generations, people begin to revolt, and leave the bunkers for the Ver. Those that stayed in the bunker are never heard from again.

TL;DR: Cyberpunk World with tall buildings, Nuclear War, place called Rime, some person saved people, made a place called Cylindrical Chamber with something neat'o inside.

 

 

The BACK-BACKSTORY

 

 

• Chaos for a long time. A lot of tribal people, pre-feudalism, and nasty events.
• Seeming out of nowhere, an armed faction known as the Fifth appears and commits a winter of atrocities and genocide. A ruling government is finally established.
• A failed coup has a large splinter faction known as the Front, leave the Fifth, and join with the remaining tribal people on the surface.
• A war breaks out, but it patters out into a stalemate.
• After several decades, the Front attacks the Fifth again, without provocation.

TL;DR: Wars between survivors, post-apocalyptic.

 

 

The BACKSTORY

 

 

• In the Fifth controlled towers of the Ver, a young Fifth Girl by name of "Dawn" and befriends two Fifth Boys, "Reeve", and the eventual Player Character "Karsten".
• The three grow up together in a pseudo-love triangle relationship. Reeve and Karsten grow bitter, but rarely come to blows.
• An attack by the Front separates Reeve, from Karsten and Dawn, who escape together.
• Suspecting the other two killed, Reeve sets out on a quest for vengeance.
• He gathers a number of important allies from both the Fifth and the Front, and slowly unravels a mystery as to where exactly the orders to attack his home came from.
• Eventually led to the current Catalyst, the one who's been pulling the strings the whole time.
• Explained to that the Fifth was a Catalyst experiment to establish order, and the Front was not intended, but has since become the far greater chance for humanity's continuation.
• Reeve kills the current Catalyst, becoming the new Catalyst himself, and decides that the past Catalysts have been wrong in their methods all along.
• Reeve and his allies gather powerful ancient artifacts, and set their eyes on the Cylindrical Chamber for plans to somehow salvage humanity.
• With the information network of the Catalyst, Reeve discovers, and comes into contact with Karsten and Dawn.
• Reeve has Dawn join him for a short while, and reveals to her his plans of using Catalyst and the Cylindrical Chamber to bring order back to humanity.
• Dawn rejects his ideals at first, but is coerced into helping him.

TL;DR: Love triangle shenanigans, bad guys of a war burn things, villain becomes president of planet.

 

 

The actual god-damn PLOT

 

 

• The beginning...
  • Karsten meets up again with Dawn, Reeve, and Reeve's allies - and immediately has an attempt on his life by the group.
  • Of importance are Reeve's associates with cyberpunk-salvaged suits of exo-skeletal armor...
    • SOLARI, a sniper centralized around heat: fire, smoke and microwaves.
    • LONARAY, a shocktrooper centralized around predation: with a layer of artificial nano-fiber that enhance muscle speed and strength.
    • WOEDCRI, with a mysterious wielder, centralized around psychological warfare: active-camouflage, electrical shocks, and sound-based weaponry all built-in.
    • THORAE, a heavy unit with a built-in machine gun, heavy plating, and the central ability of magnets: to pull and push metal objects towards or away from its plating.
    • Similarly is Reeve, armed with a sword, and the strange SEVADIE: which seems to have no discernible effects.
  • Turning on the five of them however Dawn utilizes FELIATI: an unarmored suit that utilizes aresol-sprayed nano-machines to push and block incoming fire.
  • Though helping Karsten escape, the two are eventually cornered, and are accidentally thrown from a tower of the Ver down to the surface.
  • Awakening, Karsten finds he has survived the fall with the assistance of Dawn's nantes - though she has presumably fallen to her own death in the process. There is no body to be found.
  • Karsten continues to try to escape, but is eventually captured by the Front.
  • In custody, Reeve visits Karsten, asking if he knows the whereabouts of Dawn - the two coming to the realization that she's dead, and that though they have become extreme enemies, they are essentially the only thing they both have.
  • Before his execution, Karsten is put into a jail-cell with a woman supposedly from the Fifth named Cali.
  • With Cali's help, Kasten is able to escape his execution the next morning.
  • While attempting to go back and release Cali however, Karsten encounters the man wearing LONARAY, who is fatally wounded. Stating that Reeve has something awful planned for the future, he hands Karsten LONARAY, before dying.
  • While escaping Karsten confront Reeve - the game's First Boss. At the conclusion of the seemingly even fight, Karsten manages to shoot Reeve directly in the head.
  • The two of them begin a journey: to get revenge on the unit that attacked Karsten and Dawn.

• Some things on the journey...
  • Karsten is labeled a deserter, traitor, and murderer by the Fifth and now has no friendly places he can visit. Only by keeping under cover can he venture and trade, and he can either slowly redeem himself to them or slowly become public enemy #1. The Front, conversely, become a neutral or hostile faction, attacking anyone that wears Fifth armor, but welcoming of anyone that doesn't. Players can choose to support one side or another in the war.
  • Karsten can visit his family in the Fifth, but only under extreme cover. His sister and his sister's fiance can become party members. In addition he can find an old mentor of his.
  • Cali remains evasive about her history, slowly revealing her past as a being a Fifth child that was in one of the first towers that was burned down when the war with the Fifth started again. For some pathes Cali becomes a romantic interest, though Karsten is continually haunted by thoughts of Dawn.
  • The team encounters two drifters, Bowhen and her younger sister, Lexine and has them join their party. Their backstory is slowly revealed, as Bowhen had for year been in the company of a gang of raiders and slavers for Lexine's protection. I'm not certain, but the forum rules probably mean I can't go too far into the details. Bowhen is a possible romantic interest, though this never goes anywhere.
    • If Lexine is ever killed in combat, Bowhen leaves the group, and becomes a boss late in the game.
  • Players can venture to the surface and find a castle built from rubble that houses the "Ashen Provost". A spartan-style tribe of highly revered low-tech warriors. After proving himself, Karsten can gain the trust and companionship of Povost's Legate; Lady Rodenia. Rodenia is also revealed to be armed with TYARARE, the a now defunct suit of heavy exo-skeletal armor.
• Among other thoughts...
  • Wild dogs.
  • Front child-soldier camp.
  • Fifth settlements on their last legs.
  • The story of Fifth's now over fish trade.
  • The Fifth's quest to reclaim a library from Front control.
  • A quest for alcohol.
  • "PMCs."
  • Robots of all shapes and kinds. Big terminator robots, nano-fiber clad robots that are friendly and psychotic. Massive skyscraper sized titans that hold up the towers of the Ver.
  • Strange flesh-disolving plants, and tribes people that worship them.
  • A Front team member that can be captured- interrogated- and killed- or made an ally.
  • Strange almost non-euclidian halls of the Bunkers, and fight some extremely high level and monstrous sub-human enemies.
  • Black-Clad soldiers of the Catalyst in many places of the journey, who are non-hostile by default, but are equivalent to the enemies at the end of the game.
  • The same Black-Clad soldiers attempting to subdue and disassemble a giant robot for sinister purposes.
  • Tasteful non-explicit sex.
• The main journey however has the team slowly finding and claiming vengeance on those who attacked Karsten and Dawn...
  • SOLARI: The Field Marshal of the Fifth, Derrick White. Infiltrate or assault the last remaining Fifth stronghold, and fight him on ancient holy grounds. If Bowhen remains in the game's party she is shot during the start of the battle and eventually bleeds out while the player fights. The final 1 on 1 with Derrick has him saying that Karsten is just doing Reeve's dirty-work, while Reeve finishes his plans.
  • THORAE: The head of the Front, Grace Charlotte. Again assault or infiltrate, a massive tower dominated by the Front. During the encounter it is revealed that Grace is mobilizing the Front, and trying to even contact Fifth, to collectively launch an assault on the Bunkers below. Grace can either be killed out of THORAE by stabbing her in the back with a sword, or inside THORAE. If outside, she assumes the sword to be Reeve's. If inside, she must be killed by super-charging her suit with lighting, crushing her inside.  
  • WOEDCRI: ...is nowhere to be found or heard of.
• All roads lead to...
  • A massive assault by the Fifth and Front on the surface, the last battle of the war.
  • Karsten and Co. must find a way to find Reeve, who is somehow still alive and orchestrating both sides of the battle.
  • Karsten meets a very much alive Reeve, and there's a 'wham episode':
    • SEVADIE's ability is revealed to continually bring the body to a state of neutrality. The wearer cannot age, cannot sleep, or be permanently harmed by any injury: the perfect weapon for the Catalyst.
    • Reeve finally reveals what's in the Cylindrical Chamber, the last nuclear missile in existence - and his plan to fire it up at the top of the Ver. Using its light and the religious superstitions of the people of Rime to flee into the bunker, where he can re-assert order among the masses. Those that don't climb down, will die in the resulting radiation.
    • Reeve was fully aware that his former comrades didn't like his plan, so he allowed Karsten to slowly kill them off. That is, most of his comrades.
    • Cali is revealed to have been the wielder of WOEDCRI, acting as Reeve's eyes and ears the entire time.
  • Karsten and his team are separated, Karsten barely making it out alive of the battle with Reeve in SEVADIE and Cali in WOEDCRI.
  • Bend and broken, and with no plan, but with no choice left, Karsten descends into the bunker alone to stop the launch of the missile.
• The final approach...
  • Controlled by Catalyst Intel, some of the battle descends behind Karsten, underground.
  • In a number of swift scenarios Karsten encounters all the remaining members of his former team, who each sacrifice themselves to save him from an otherwise insurmountable obstacle.
  • Finally, Karsten comes to the antechamber of the Cylindrical Chamber and confronts Cali - who has already donned the sanity-crushing WOEDCRI. Here he has the option to out-right kill her, or try and talk her down. Ultimately, Karsten's relationship decides the effect of the conversation; with admitting feeling for her resulting either in her laughing at him, infuriated, or breaking down into tears and having Karsten help her remove WOEDCRI. Even if she is convinced, she still doesn't fight alongside Karsten, stating that she has done all she could, and that the war isn't hers anymore.
• The final battle.
  • Regardless of the method, Karsten enters the Cylindrical Chamber - the missile silo, alone.
  • Karsten encounters Reeve inside a giant mecha version of SEVADIE - still unable to be harmed. The battle is intense, and Karsten must formulate the plan to testfire the missile's engines with Reeve underneath. The testfire ignites SEVADIE, and Reeve burns to ashes...
  • ...until he reforms from the wreckage but moments later.
  • Still forming again, Reeve speaks to Karsten, congratulating him for having outsmarted him. Reeve admits that the battle between them never should have been an arms-race, and that it was all along just a war between two men over a woman's love.
  • Reeve asks Karsten to help him, and together they both disconnect Reeve from SEVADIE. Immediately Reeve attempts to disconnect Karsten from LONARAY, which the player can or can't help with to make the final fight easier or more honorable.
  • Either way, the final battle at the base of Cylindrical Chamber, amidst the burning ruins of SEVADIE takes place - it more or less identical to the First Boss of the game.
• The end.
  • Winning the battle, Karsten delivers the final blow to Reeve. In his final moments, Reeve asks Karsten to look him in the eye while he dies - so that Catalyst might be passed on the Karsten. The player can either obey, or deny the final request.
    • If he obeys, and becomes the next one burdened to save humanity, Karsten lets go of Reeve's body and watches the light from his eyes fade, and as he says thank-you.
    • If he denies, and ends the reign of the Catalyst, Karsten embraces Reeve and holds onto him tightly as Reeve slowly dies, eventually stating that he understands.
  • In the end, Karsten slowly turns, and leaves the Cylindrical Chamber.

TL;DR: Schiznap goes down, adventures to be had. Quest of vengeance, sex, nuclear bomb, feels, and nanomachines, son.

 

Hey, did you survive to the end of the story?! Congrats! I'd be super interested in hearing what you have to say!

 

 

 

Chaosian

 

Fun Fact: it took me 4 hours to write this post.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Chaosian

[RaidoFrost 7]

I must say that was pretty darn cool. I can tell that you took your time with it. It sounds like something that would work better as an action rpg, course there's plenty of ABS scripts to use.

 

I really liked the story, it's hard for me to narrow it down on what I would change about it. Maybe allow us to play from Reeves point of view as well?

 

Also liked the prospect of choosing wether to infiltrate or assault the strongholds.

 

Anyway it's definitely worthy of a game, way more original than anything I could think of.

Edited December 8, 2014 by RaidoFrost

[+ Chaosian 617]

Hey RadioFrost, I'm really glad that you liked it!

As for the playing as Reeve aspect, I had been toying around with the idea myself - the adventure really had another going on behind it with a lot of the same characters in Reeve's quest.

Rather than increasing the scope of an already massive idea though, I figure Reeve's story and other, smaller but similar ones I've already thought through (Bowhen, some things happening in the Back-Backstory, and in the Way-Back-Backstory), might work better as smaller individual installments, should I somehow not become completely sick of the concept after the game is done. Sorta like DLC or Expansions but stand alone?

 

I'm also glad you like some of that there player choice, I encourage anyone that has the time and resources to branch a game's path! It makes it so much more dynamic!

 

As for originality - hahah, uhh, yeah suuuure. Let's not connect any dots and call it completely original...

[cuongeke1 37]

Whew don't make it too complex you'll understand me someday

[+ Chaosian 617]

Whew don't make it too complex you'll understand me someday

 

Hm, I very much understand what you're talking about.

The scope is pretty crazy, which is in part why it's something I'd be no hurry in starting in until I was an absolute master at RPG maker..

[Nestat 80]

Wow, man. I mean, wOw!

That is indeed a very good constructed creation of yours! I certainly didn't expect that!

I've read the whole thing twice, making notes of some happenings.

 

But first i wanted to tell you, i cannot imagine how much time and effort you've putted to create such a detailed story; I like all the small details, they make the whole plot even more unique than it's already is. I think the fact that your story plays in the future is awesome. At times the plot, the whole scenery in fact, reminded me of brilliant titles such as Fallout, Half-Life 2 and Mass Effect among others.

It's a very good story and i would love to see you come through with this, thus making a game with that plot, which i can play! (hehe).. I think a number of people would be very interested in that title.

You certainly managed to get MY attention towards it and now i must suffer the torture of waiting until you release the damn thing.

 

Enjoyed reading the story, some questions were 'born' into my mind, and some critique too i need to speak out loud.

I'll start with the questions (i'm gonna jump back and forward in the story time-line and will not ask the questions in a specific order if that's ok).

 

• I'm really interested in the details on how the Catalyst was created in the first place. It seems to be an 'unnatural' power of some kind, created by humans; (or a human;)  But i guess i should leave that questions out; otherwise you could create a WAY-WAY-BACK-STORY to answer this!
• Again, the Catalyst, at the very end of the story. If Karsten chooses NOT to look Reeve in the eyes while Reeve dies, you stated that this would "end the reign of the Catalyst". So, that was it for the Catalyst then? I mean, can it end? Will it be gone, like forever? No one would ever have this duty again?
• So.., Cali. "Cali is revealed to have been the wielder of WOEDCRI, acting as Reeve's eyes and ears the entire time". Does that mean that because Reeve knew that his comrades didn't agree with his choices, he putted Karsten in the same cell with Cali in the first place, for her to 'rescue' him before he would be executed so that Karsten would survive and kill Reeve's comrades? (and if so, did Cali knew about this?) I mean, was that Reeve's plan all along? Or was it because Reed didn't wanted Karsten to die, too? Or both reasons? Or a completely different one?
• Cali, again. As stated at the end, you can either kill Cali or talk her down. If admitting feelings for her and can talk her down... well, what becomes of her at the end-end? She is not mentioned afterwards. Does she follow Karsten? Are they going to be together? Hm? Hmm?!
• What is an "PMC"??
• The Nuclear missile was never fired, correct? There were only a test-fire for it's engines; So it still exists?
• At the end sequence. You have the last choice to make. You can 'absorb' the Catalyst or end it; You are aware that either way, the end is... open-ended, yes? I like that. What happens if you choose this, what happens if you choose that; Oh, its goood! (Considering a sequel?)

Needless to say that this is good movie-material. It surely has the complexity for it.

 

 

And now some criticism... (hmmm...)

I only have one thing to criticize but it's gonna be honest and harsh (like you wished) because i absolutely did NOT liked that.

• You told the whole story! I mean you literally told the whole plot;! Why do this??? You could have left some parts out (definitely the end) for the suspense value to increase through game-play... Now the player will be prepared for every single event in the story Aah... that, i didn't expected it either.

And that's it!

I can only say bravo for a fantastic plot, you surely have imagination!And with that, you can do many things! Well done!

(Now make this a game already!)

 

Oh yeah... and something else by the way

"...the passion project that first started Tuesday, June 18th, 2011, at 1:04:02 AM" --->who do you know that?

Edited April 5, 2015 by Nestat

[+ Chaosian 617]

Holy necrosis Batman!

 

Hey Nestat, I'm quite glad that you enjoyed it, and that you've offered such in-depth feedback! You honor me with such praise. Yeah, one day I'd really love to work on the project, but for the time being, I'm still trying to decide on the engine - and if it's something I'll even be able to complete solo. I figure I'll only get the chance to tell it once...

 

I'd be more than happy to address the the questions and critiques that you have.

• I'm really interested in the details on how the Catalyst was created in the first place. It seems to be an 'unnatural' power of some kind, created by humans; (or a human;)  But i guess i should leave that questions out; otherwise you could create a WAY-WAY-BACK-STORY to answer this!
  • Yeah, I wouldn't really like to delve too deep in the supernatural, but there could be something to it. I haven't thought all too deep on the subject and feel that, to make an analogy, the monsters in Amnesia were a lot scarier before you saw them. Perhaps it's all just a memetic and cultural power, but, perhaps- ...
• Again, the Catalyst, at the very end of the story. If Karsten chooses NOT to look Reeve in the eyes while Reeve dies, you stated that this would "end the reign of the Catalyst". So, that was it for the Catalyst then? I mean, can it end? Will it be gone, like forever? No one would ever have this duty again?
  • You have that correct. If this is the scenario - the line is broken, there is no way it could ever return. This is the choice silently presented to the player: is this power and duty something that should remain?
• So.., Cali. "Cali is revealed to have been the wielder of WOEDCRI, acting as Reeve's eyes and ears the entire time". Does that mean that because Reeve knew that his comrades didn't agree with his choices, he putted Karsten in the same cell with Cali in the first place, for her to 'rescue' him before he would be executed so that Karsten would survive and kill Reeve's comrades? (and if so, did Cali knew about this?) I mean, was that Reeve's plan all along? Or was it because Reed didn't wanted Karsten to die, too? Or both reasons? Or a completely different one?
  • Yeah, looking back, I wasn't explicit in the summary. You've figured it out though - this is Reeve's plan, and Cali plays along. You're also somewhat correct with the second assumption. Reeve probably would rather Karsten not die, but he's pretty bitter and his convictions are pretty strong, so Karsten's death wouldn't much sway his decision making progress in the long run.
• Cali, again. As stated at the end, you can either kill Cali or talk her down. If admitting feelings for her and can talk her down... well, what becomes of her at the end-end? She is not mentioned afterwards. Does she follow Karsten? Are they going to be together? Hm? Hmm?!
  • I'd leave it pretty ambiguous I suppose. Her loyalties are pretty screwed up if she survives, but there's nothing to say that the two couldn't 'be together'.
• What is an "PMC"??
  • Right, I can understand why that would be confusing. A PMC is a Private Military Company, in this context is mostly like a mercenary band.
• The Nuclear missile was never fired, correct? There were only a test-fire for it's engines; So it still exists?
  • In earlier drafts the missile was launched off with the silo doors still closed, and it detonated and collapsed the entire underground - but the idea changed. As it stands now I suppose you're correct. It is still in commission, so it could potentially still be used. Good luck doing so without all the resources of the Catalyst though, launching missiles with centuries old technology is not a very self-explanatory thing - especially for a tribesman.
• At the end sequence. You have the last choice to make. You can 'absorb' the Catalyst or end it; You are aware that either way, the end is... open-ended, yes? I like that. What happens if you choose this, what happens if you choose that; Oh, its goood! (Considering a sequel?)
  • Thanks for the praise! Indeed, I think it's the best ending of all the various iterations so far. While it could have prequels out the wazoo, I'd be hesitant of the idea of a direct sequel. For one, a majority of the cast is dead - and those that remain are of questionable status. I'd really rather not have a sequel that completely negates any meaningful decisions you could have made in the first game. Another thing being that the state of the world is on a pretty sharp downwards incline during the events of the first game, and it'd take a lot to make a second not incredibly depressing as the world gets emptier and emptier. Maybe things change after the ending though, who knows. I'm still a little on the fence though, and I'm tossing around the idea that Lexine may canonically survive, so...

[Whiona 310]

Overall, I think this sounds good! I can tell you've put a lot of passion into developing these ideas. That passion is going to shine through when you make it into a game. Speaking of which, I do think that this would work fine as an RPG, to answer your big question.

One thing I especially liked was Karsten's sister and her fiance becoming available as party members. I just think couples who battle together are adorable. Also, it's cool to see the main character's family getting involved in the plot.

Now for some honest criticism on certain aspects - not because I don't like this story. Quite the contrary! I think it's really cool, so I want it to be the best that it can be. With that in mind, here are a few things that didn't sit well with me:

• The love triangle. I guess you could include it, but consider whether or not it's really necessary. While love triangles can occasionally be handled well, most of the time I find them boring and/or annoying.
• Karsten flat-out shooting Reeve right after an even battle. Why didn't he just shoot him in the first place, if he was capable of doing it?
• Dawn dying for the sake of Karsten and Reeve's development. Killing off female characters for the sole purpose of causing man pain and a subsequent quest for revenge is both sexist and very overdone. If you want to keep it in, you will need to work hard to avoid it being tasteless and cliche. Ensure that Dawn's death significantly affects more than just the men who were in love with her. (Another possibility: could she turn out to have survived the fall? Her body was never found...)
• Reeve surviving a direct gunshot to the head. I hope there's a very good reason why he was able to do that - and even if you do explain it, some players might still call BS. Just a fair warning.
• "Ver" as a title. It's a little too simple, in my opinion, and doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

One last thing: you have a rich backstory here, which is great from a worldbuilding standpoint. However, it also means that it will be easy to succumb to info dumps. Try your best to avoid them, and remember to feed information to the player slowly.

Good luck with this project!

[+ Chaosian 617]

Hey Whiona,

 

Thanks for the support and feedback! It's all very useful for me as a developer, and for the project as it continues to be developed in my mind.

As with Nestat, I'd be happy to address your comments and criticism!

• The love triangle. I guess you could include it, but consider whether or not it's really necessary. While love triangles can occasionally be handled well, most of the time I find them boring and/or annoying.
  • Indeed, a pretty fair criticism. I've been thinking that I'm not particularly fond of it being a primary motivator, but have been a little hard pressed to find alternatives that I like as much. I'd like to play with the idea of it being a good way to show the physical, intellectual, and social edge Reeve has over Karsten and in that sense, make him more heroic than Karsten is. I think as a plot element, a love triangle gives a lot of room to set up a compelling villain. Of course though, it all depends on execution and we're really, really, far away from seeing that.
• Karsten flat-out shooting Reeve right after an even battle. Why didn't he just shoot him in the first place, if he was capable of doing it?
  • A good point, and something I'd probably just have to justify somehow. It can be as easy as knocking his helmet off, or him dodging your gunfire during gameplay though.
• Dawn dying for the sake of Karsten and Reeve's development. Killing off female characters for the sole purpose of causing man pain and a subsequent quest for revenge is both sexist and very overdone. If you want to keep it in, you will need to work hard to avoid it being tasteless and cliche. Ensure that Dawn's death significantly affects more than just the men who were in love with her. (Another possibility: could she turn out to have survived the fall? Her body was never found...)
  • In some ways you're right, though in others your wrong. A character that other characters care for dying is not sexist. Women are an elevated life form however, so killing a woman has a lot more emotional impact than killing all those disposable man-things, so yes it is sexist. Opening a door for someone because they are a woman is also sexist, so, go figure. As Dawn was one of the Fifth, her loss is felt when the news reaches home - in the back-story, Karsten's sister and Dawn being particularly good friends. It's a small world, that gets smaller every day, I guess. I have played with the idea of some sort of 11th hour plot-twist involving Dawn actually being alive, but it always felt as pretty contrived, and I didn't like the way it changed Dawn's character and sense of narrative icon. I also like the idea of Karsten holding onto a lot of false hope that she's still alive. After all, falls are never deadly in TV Land. The sequence is a little hazy in the details for me though, and making her death seem like an accident doesn't quite have all the narrative punch it could have though.
• Reeve surviving a direct gunshot to the head. I hope there's a very good reason why he was able to do that - and even if you do explain it, some players might still call BS. Just a fair warning.
  • I don't think I mentioned it at that particular juncture, but I'm not pulling a Fallout: New Vegas. Reeve is wearing SEVADIE at the time, and can bounce back pretty fast from a shot to the head. After all, he survives complete bodily incineration down the road.
• "Ver" as a title. It's a little too simple, in my opinion, and doesn't quite roll off the tongue.
  • It is a working title, but honestly, it's better than the real one - which suffers from the inverse problem. I'm not all too satisfied with it though, and I'm pretty open to suggestions.

[Whiona 310]

Whoops, sorry about the "shot in the head" thing - I don't know why my brain went and made up that detail. I was pretty tired when I wrote that response, but still, my apologies.

 

Ah, to give you a little more context regarding the killing-off-Dawn-and-sexism thing: it's a trend that mostly exists in comic books, but can bleed over into other media. Female characters are often introduced solely for the purpose of being harmed in some way to cause emotional trauma to a male character who is in love with her. TV Tropes explains pretty well why it should be approached with caution: "it is all too often a hallmark of supremely lazy writing - using a dead woman as "cheap anger" for the male protagonist, and devaluing the life of a woman in the process, instead of giving the villain something actually interesting to do that can involve all three characters and more emotions than simple anger and angst." So, no, of course it's not inherently a bad thing to kill off a character who someone cares about. It's just the fact it's a trend for female love interests in particular to get killed that makes it something you may want to avoid. You could still handle it well if, again, you make sure that her death affects more than just the male characters. It sounds like you do plan to show her death affecting a woman as well, which is good! You should be alright and manage to avoid contributing to a disconcerting pattern. (Also, a part of the trend is that the female character's body will usually be displayed in a gruesome manner after the killing, so it's good that you've avoided that.)

Edited April 6, 2015 by Whiona

[+ Chaosian 617]

I do understand where you're coming from, and you're probably quite right. Regardless of how non-gory it is, or if I show a female character saddened by the results, this is pretty clearly a fridge stuffing. I will admit that, and I will say that I'd rather some alternative, but am satisfied enough with what I have. There is at least some lazy writing at work, that is to say that I would have to work a lot harder to somehow make the story work with all 3 staying alive, or at least Dawn not dying to 'jam-pack' the story with more conflict. The story probably wouldn't be anywhere as interesting either though, as evading Dawn's death essentially negates all the psychosexual tension between Karsten and Cali, and gives him a constant emotional safety net, rather than the emotional instability that'd make him a compelling leader and character. This is to say nothing of the bonding between Karsten and Reeve that isn't developed if the two cannot grieve over the same intense loss.

 

Consider though, as a thought experiment, that the hero was Dawn, the one that died was Karsten (and I guess, by extension, that Reeve was female). If Karsten was stuffed in the fridge, the term wouldn't have even been brought up at all. You want to talk sexism? That is sexist beyond belief - it's a complete double standard. You wanna talk devaluing human life? The perception right now is that it's perfectly fine for a man to go into a meat grinder, but if the same happens, or if a woman gets an elevated death even, then there's a problem. The ramifications of these shouldn't be much different depending on the gender of the deceased, and certainly not the gender of the effected. These double-standards exist though, and as an artist, I feel it is within my right to exploit them to make the dynamics of a story more interesting - even if it's lazy, haha. The perceived cultural subtext though, is far, far, deeper than the, actual admittedly shallow plot beats.

 

Death of the author indeed.

 

 

Also, yay 300 posts.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Chaosian

[TheCaliMack 22]

At this point I'm hoping you can pull this off. The storyline is so complex I look forward to blasting my brain open.
I love these things!

[Whiona 310]

It's understandable - sometimes you just can't avoid a certain trope with negative connotations because it adds more to your work than it takes away from it. Sounds like you recognize what I'm talking about and will do your best to avoid outright tastelessness, so you should be alright. I just felt that I should point out its presence, to ensure that you know it's there and will handle it sensitively.

 

Well...I mean, the term wouldn't be brought up simply because the pattern doesn't apply to male characters nearly as often. But it is true that male character deaths are seen as having less emotional impact as the death of a woman. Women are viewed as requiring the protection of a man, so if a woman dies, it must be because a man "failed" somehow. Cue the culling of female characters to milk as much male character angst as possible. By extension, men are viewed as "disposable" because if a man dies, it was his fault for being so weak and unable to protect himself. It's a nasty double standard for both genders involved, and you're right that gender shouldn't affect how serious we perceive the death to be.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Whiona