Trading Resource :D

[cuongeke1 37]

Hello everybody ^-^

Since I don't have enough of time for making game and most of people doesn't too.

Why don't us share our resource, our whole project or a part of it

(may be items setup, weapons setup, skill setup, classes setup ...etc)

So we can save our precious time to focus on planning & making game scenes, isn't that a great idea?

I don't know how will you feel, but i'm sure that i will be happy, may be a little of funny to see the

weapons, characters, maps which i made be present on others projects why not?

[TheoAllen 830]

Databases are very specifics in each game concept.

I'm not sure how to integrate them.

But it possible for maps I think

[cuongeke1 37]

Whew i think we can delete some parts we don't want to share from the project and then

upload whole its folder. I see a lots potentials here.

Amateurs or even some professions may save a lots time to go here and just copy some

databases fit for their project.

Do you agree that setting actors & classes stats is the most painful job

and it's more painful to keep them balance against enemies.

It won't be so painful if someone share their database for you so

you can keep your inspiration on making game, right  

[VeNAM 10]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're talking about here is a place where we can freely place any resource (maps, characters, tilesets, etc.), and anyone can use any of them? Sounds cool to me! That may be more of the domain of rpgmakervx.net, though...

[Spectre 829]

If you're talking about swapping resources of yours for another user's, I don't see such a huge objection to it, but I'd rather you show what kind of resources you can produce.

 

If you're talking about publicly releasing all resources from our projects, allow me to say that this is a very bad idea. I do not apologize for my language, and this is the first time I will tell this to someone, directly: no. this is bad.

 

Allow me to illustrate:

1. This website already allows people to trade resources.

What you're asking for is essentially what the purpose of this forum is. We already trade scripts and graphical resources on a regular basis, and quite a handful of project files have their raw source codes or Game Maker files still unencrypted on download; with a few permissions from the creator, you're welcome to just look into those and dissect the files anyway.

 

I don't see what you're asking for, to be honest. We already have resource releases on the forums.

 

2. Customization

 

Databases are very specifics in each game concept.

I'm not sure how to integrate them.

But it possible for maps I think

As Theo rightly pointed out, all resources created are custom-made for the user requesting them, and their games. While, of course, some general releases apply to everyone, and you're free to use them, it's a lot less hassle, in the end, to simply search for resources fitting your game parameters, since there already is a ton of distinctions between resources on the forum. Grandmadeb, for instance, has a metric ton of resource links that she spent days, even weeks, compiling.

 

Let's also consider that some resources are meant to be limited-access. If we, as resource makers, want to release resources, we already would have released them. It is for this reason that I have watermarked all of my Sugar Sweet resources, since I make them solely for Tsarmina's project, and Tsarmina's project alone. I don't intend to distribute them to cuongeke1, or anyone else on this forum, even if you ask me to.

 

Likewise, my database for Tsarmina's project is custom made solely for the battle system, scripts and concept of the game that Tsarmina created. Even if you somehow persuade me to give you the entire database (which you won't), I'll essentially be making a whole new database just so that it fits in your game. It's a waste of time to port everything over in the first place.

 

 

I don't know how will you feel, but i'm sure that i will be happy, may be a little of funny to see the

weapons, characters, maps which i made be present on others projects why not?

Because I didn't ask for your resources. If you really are interested in a trade, make a resource pack, a thread with a preview, and PM to the interested parties the links to negotiate the trade. If not, feel free to release them as they are on the Resource Forum.

 

3. It's a good idea... for freeloaders.

It's excellent if you're too lazy to make your own project, but it's very insulting for those who create them from scratch, for people to just leech our resources, specifically custom-made for our projects. Again, let me just say: If we wanted to release a resource to the public, we already would've done so. Likewise, if we wanted to offer you help on databasing, we'll need to know more about your project rather than just porting everything from ours for the whole world to see. We spent a lot of time and effort on making our project files from, essentially, scratch.

 

You're asking us to make our game yours, because you're lazy.

I do not apologize for my language - "not having enough time" on your project is no excuse for ripping someone else's project files wholesale. If you really wanted help, ask for it nicely on the recruitment threads, and link us information about your project. Every project is different, and I'd rather know more about yours, and cater my resources to your project information and your working style, than give up mine for everyone to see, and lose originality for my own ideas.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to be selfish. We do contribute resources on a semi-regular basis to the forums, and if people ask for help to custom-make some aspects of their project, we'd gladly assist. However, you need to draw the line between "asking for assistance" and "taking chunks of our project wholesale".

Edited January 2, 2015 by Spectre

[+ Chaosian 617]

Snip

It's a harsh but very true sentiment.

I concur with pretty much everything said here. It's a matter of devaluing a game, the sum of it's parts, with "used" parts.

 

If you are going to make a game, especially one you are planning on releasing it to the public, seriously take the time to make your game as much yours as possible, even if that means that it looks worse because of it. Avoid default RTP resources like the plague, edit them at the very least, and use other people's resources ONLY to save time and unneeded effort, always with their permission, and always with the intention that you can and may have to end up replacing the work with your own.

 

Why? Because RPG Maker games are cheep, disgustingly cheep. They're so cheep, and they're so easy to make, and anyone who's ever used or heard of the software knows how cheep and easy it is to make a game from it. Know why Steam calls RPG Maker "Software" instead of a "Tool"? That's why. RPG Maker games are so cheep, that you have to genuinely work to elevate your game beyond the software that was used to make the game. A perfect RPG Maker game should be questioned as to what it was made with.

 

Any art asset you've ever seen in an RPG Maker game should be considered as claimed there forever, because if you so much as remind someone of that asset, your product is immediately devalued as a knock-off (which it could very well be). I only recognized the trees in To The Moon as looking RTP. In the entire game, that's it. And it certainly doesn't end at art. Jez, it's like you'd think Kevin MacLeod was the composer for the universe.

And to suggest that people go out of their way to share even more than what they have already thought of or offered? I'm all for support and comradely, but are you crazy?

 

Real games are hard to make, and they get "street cred" because of it. Off gets a lot more credit for having some pretty shifty low-fidelity pixel-art and scanned pencil drawings, than any RTP, resource-filled, other-people-did-my-work game with amazing art.

I've spent 4 months of production on a student game (not in RPG Maker) with 3 other people: 12 hours a day, no weekends, strait. It ended up engaging, but buggy as hell, and 15 minutes long. A portfolio piece at best.

I look at my 300 hours in RPG maker and think I've just left pre-production on 1 project, with pretty much no plan for what I'm going to do. It takes a lot of effort to make a good game, especially a solo project, and sharing that just devalues both of our work.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Chaosian

[Kayzee 4,032]

Yeah Spectre and Chaosian because obviously nothing worthwhile can ever be done unless you do everything yourself. I guess all music remixes, all recut footage, every example of someone using something to do something creative should all be thrown away. Every one who does anything with something is automatically a freeloader and the work is automatically crap, despite any merits it may have. Probably they owe you money too right? Yeah maybe SOPA was a good idea after all. Let's just let everyone hoard all their "intellectual property" (lol) and let's give everyone a huge uphill battle where only the rich and elite can ever do anything worth while. In no way are you ever afraid someone may be able to use something you did to do something better. And heck why should you have to worry about that and constantly improve yourself and make new better things instead of being able to safely fall back on the things you have already done? Everyone is just out to take something, to cheapen it, to ruin your livelihood, because they are talentless hacks obviously. It all always have to be the people who have the time and money to make the prettiest flashest things that must succeed in all endeavours.

 

Okay, okay, maybe that sarcastic spiel was way to inflammatory and harsh, and I am definitely not saying everyone should be forced to share everything if they really don't want to. I am just saying, if you throw around terms like "freeloaders" for everyone who uses shared content, and accuses it of "cheapening" the content just at the mere mention of the idea of having some people share resources? That just strikes me as overly reactionary old rich man talk. What about the people who just want to work on something fun? Does everything have to be a huge serious business thing? Anyway, I don't see any begging here, and even if there was I don't see the need for you to slap your boot in their face.

Edited January 3, 2015 by KilloZapit

[Spectre 829]

I appreciate if you don't try to make a straw man out of my argument, Killo. Yes, most of our projects have a certain degree of dependency on other assets. But to use a big chunk of someone else's work wholesale and to call it your own? As I mentioned, we need to draw the line between "using resources" and "using most of the project wholesale".

 

Allow me to reiterate.

If you're talking about swapping resources of yours for another user's, I don't see such a huge objection to it, but I'd rather you show what kind of resources you can produce.

 

If you're talking about publicly releasing all resources from our projects, allow me to say that this is a very bad idea.

The purpose of my comment, harsh as it is, is to establish exactly what the OP meant by, I quote: "Why don't us share our resource, our whole project or a part of it;" following which, addressing the limitations of sharing a "whole project or a part of it".

 

I'm fairly certain this sentiment is not limited to myself: if we had wanted to share something, it'd have already been released. Hime's scripts are publicly accessible because these assets are what Hime wants to release without giving away too much of his own advantage - half the scripts may be synonymous with YanFly or Victor. However the patching system is a paid service because there are some things, which, if released, give the competition a definitive advantage.

 

I, guilty as charged, have used others' resources - Theo's battle system, to be exact. Again, as a reference point. I do not intend to distribute should I not be able to modify it to my project, and even then, I offer something in return. I am aware that his prodigal scripting is his comparative advantage, and that he deserves, at least, an offer for my comparative advantage in return for his assistance.

 

I agree with your statement on fun - people should also keep that in mind when doing casual development. But when the quality of resources reaches above a certain benchmark, you develop a competitive advantage. To say this is "overly reactionary rich man talk" is not only ad hominem, but diminishes the idea that, yes, there is a side of us that plans to make our games competitively viable. Am I wrong to defend this cadre of people? Ought we, then, have Hime release the patching services free of charge? Or that Premium resources, and Premium members, are an elitist cadre given a head start that they ought to share, a toxic idea to be removed?

 

I am perfectly willing to do free resources from time to time. But as Richter mentioned before, he depends on his work for sustenance - his scripting gets him paid, and he doesn't exactly make a huge income. There is a side to the game maker community, which, yes, depends on this for business. I don't fully agree with Chaos, but the point is: I can give you resources from time to time. But not my whole project, nor 50%, even 20%, depending on the nature of the project, and I hope y'all understand that to some of us, it matters. Rest assured however, if my project is casual, the source files and resources are all yours.

 

As much as I appreciate your sentiment, I do not appreciate the belittling of our right to own a comparative advantage.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Spectre

[Galv 1,387]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and people don't have to agree with each other but let's please try to keep it nice here

[Blindga 144]

There is so much going on here I don't even no what to say.

 

I think you're right on the database thing, don't get me wrong, but the whole theory on the competitive advantage thing is a little off topic, isn't it Spectre?

 

I'm don't quite agree with Chaosian's note on the originality of a game. If I've learned anything as a writer is that originality is overrated, and it's benefits are paper thin while they last. But I see where he is coming from too.

 

Main Point: No one is being lazy, no one is being a freeloader, no one is being cheap. We don't need any uncalled accusations or rants on why this is logically wrong.

 

On topic, Spectre already nailed it: it just doesn't work that way. A game is a well oiled machine, you can't just take out the pieces so easily. But, there are a wealth of resources out there. You can make any kind of game you want. We can't do it for you, but if you have an idea we can help with ideas.

 

Time is on you though. Time management is kind of a fundamental skill of game development. It's not something anyone can, or should, help you with.

 

I wish you good luck.

[+ Chaosian 617]

Of course not step on or to infringe on cuongeke, who just happens to be the unfortunate man in the middle at this particular moment, but I have the feeling that things like these are always coming less from a place of genuinely enhancing the mass creativity of the community, or for redefining the boundaries of what art truly is, and more rather providing an easier time to make already easy enough to make games. It feels to me more like a get-rich quick scheme, and a leechy idea, because I know when I was a leechy person ten years ago, I would have loved it.

 

It's okay with me if anyone wants to paint me the bad guy, that I'm advocating censorship and trying to invalidate all content creators because they're all secretly Satan. I'm talking about an entitled and elitist concept, I know I am, but it's also the realities of all our situation. Content that is copied loses value, and energy spent on making content easy to be copied is wasted on scrapped projects that took little commitment to get to their end point. Spectre mentions competition, I think detrivores are not apex-predators. If people are not happy with the content of their game or their ideas are too big, they can scope back or abandon their project, find resources others already offer online, be a leech and survive off charity, pay for weaknesses with the strengths of others, or bite the bullet and grow their own two legs. That's the truth, and you don't have to walk too far past the crowd that cheers you on to realize that.

 

There is a merit to taking grueling time and effort to do things, even poorly, if it means you can call it your own, and audiences recognize that - especially audiences of elites like the RPGMaker community where these games are likely to get their attention.

 

Does that invalidate RTP, or content creators in any way? Hell no, everyone has used RTP as an invaluable learning tool, and even I take a few small requests on the forums from time to time. Do I do it because I think anyone's game is going to hit it big and credit me in it, is it because I hope that the people asking for these resources can excel beyond or impress me with my own content? No, it's because I know I was a leech at one point in time, and that the people that helped me with my projects that I inevitably scrapped made me so happy - and I'd like to make others just as happy. That, and I'm an incredible hypocrite that is secretly Satan.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Chaosian

[Kayzee 4,032]

I appreciate if you don't try to make a straw man out of my argument, Killo. Yes, most of our projects have a certain degree of dependency on other assets. But to use a big chunk of someone else's work wholesale and to call it your own? As I mentioned, we need to draw the line between "using resources" and "using most of the project wholesale".

 

...

Okay granted that was probably a bad way to respond. I will acknowledge setting up straws men extremes isn't the best way to argue a point, but I mostly was trying to illustrate for you the kind of reaction I felt at the time. I really felt sort of offended, but I often do in this area, and my first impulse was to offend back, and I apologize for that. You don't deserve that, and it doesn’t really help my case. I just hope maybe you can sort of see where I am coming from dispute that.

 

More to the point, I think there is a big difference between simply not wanting to have your work shared and basically attacking the whole idea that someone else would. If someone said to you that you now had to share everything for the public good, you would have had every reason to be as defensive and dismissive as (it seems to me) you are being. If you simply explained why you don't want to share stuff, yeah I can understand that. But you basically threw out the word "freeloaders". Don't you think that was a bit unfair? Don't you think you were a bit dismissive of people's ability to take something and figure out new ways of using it?

 

I am not convinced you can't at least learn something about game design through looking through other people's work. Taking it and using directly as your own is a bit much, but that's not the only thing you can do with it. You can learn tricks in how you set up databases, or do maps, or events, or scripts, that will help you when you want to do it on your own. You can become inspired to use old things in new ways. I don't doubt that some "freeloaders" or "lazy" people exist, but to classify every single person who is interested in other people's work as one is incredibly dismissive. That is not even going into parody and commentary of existing work, fan works, and other uses.

 

Like I said, I am not saying people should be forced to share, I am just saying that maybe people treat the idea with a little more respect.

 

Of course not step on or to infringe on cuongeke, who just happens to be the unfortunate man in the middle at this particular moment, but I have the feeling that things like these are always coming less from a place of genuinely enhancing the mass creativity of the community, or for redefining the boundaries of what art truly is, and more rather providing an easier time to make already easy enough to make games. It feels to me more like a get-rich quick scheme, and a leechy idea, because I know when I was a leechy person ten years ago, I would have loved it.

 

...

For the record, I don't think you are the bad guy, or even really even that wrong, I just think you have a skewed idea about what "value" is. Which is fine, because everyone sort of does (especially me). I just deny the idea that content always loses value when copied (or indeed that there is ANY objective way of judging value) and that being either the first or the best at using said content counts for a lot more then worrying about how many people are using it (at least I think so). I don't necessarily think you are promoting censorship either (though I do think there is a lot of unfortunate legal grey area where someone could use copyright law for the sake of censorship, I don't necessarily think everyone who wants to protect copyright necessarily wants to censor people). If I were to accuse you of anything it would be that you desire to have some sort of monopoly on something, and that strikes me as a lot more of a tricky thing to judge.

Edited January 3, 2015 by KilloZapit

[Spectre 829]

Perhaps I do apologize for the "freeloader" comment. But my sentiment remains: if you don't have the time to, minimally, assist, with the construction of your game, we shouldn't be divulging twenty days' worth of work for a copy/paste job. That was my main contention, however abrasive it was; and I thank Blind (my good man) for rephrasing that.

 

the whole theory on the competitive advantage thing is a little off topic, isn't it Spectre?

It's more of an extended example to prove that ownership of our own resources, for our own intents - commercial in this case - is valid justification for why we ought not to divulge larger chunks of our project. As I mentioned, if I intend to release something for free, I would've already done it; this was primarily to address a second concern, one that we cannot divulge a "whole project" even if import compatability was not an issue.

 

Chaos, I think it's time you stepped things down a notch. We understand your sentiment, but the antithesis to "leeching", as you said, doesn't have to be churning out 300 man hours of work. Minimally we just need the OP to manage his time effectively. The resources are of secondary concern; I've seen purely RTP and ripped resource games perform well. The question is, are you willig to invest the time needed to make it well?

 

Before we get into another flame war regarding ownership and creative licensing though, I suppose we can all agree that the verdict here is to minimally spend time with your project, and at least piece together what you have, ripped, borrowed or not.

 

As Blind mentioned, if you are the game maker, you alone ought to be the arbiter of what goes in and out of your game; whether we are contractually obligated to help is of secondary concern. "Freeloader" is probably a bit too strong of a word, but to call a copy/paste job from pre-configured databases anything similar to "effort" would be an act of delusion.

 

However, if we do have a rough idea of what your game comprises, we can link or provide the necessary resources for you to configure; which, I believe, is more of the essence in game creation.

[+ Chaosian 617]

Chaos, I think it's time you stepped things down a notch. We understand your sentiment, but the antithesis to "leeching", as you said, doesn't have to be churning out 300 man hours of work. Minimally we just need the OP to manage his time effectively. The resources are of secondary concern; I've seen purely RTP and ripped resource games perform well. The question is, are you willig to invest the time needed to make it well?

Yes, forgive me - I can be a bit brash, out of line, and too engaged in what I'm talking about at times.

 

I suppose the crux is that RPG Maker is above all, something that should be an enjoyable process in making a fun or meaningful game. I think that making your project your own in whatever way you do it is a huge part of that process, and editing databases is just another small part of the big picture. Why would you want to rob yourself of the fun and opportunity for creativity?, hahah!

 

My advice for OP is that the idea probably isn't the best, but there's a few definite solutions. You might find that if you don't want to work on certain areas of a game, you'd do better working on team projects - with someone who's willing to take that role on for you in exchange for doing something they don't enjoy (and maybe you excel at!). Alternatively, you could keep the project your own and simply outsource the databases and systems to another who's willing to work on that particular part of the gameplay.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Chaosian

[Kayzee 4,032]

I guess I just think if you are good at something and give it enough love and care, it should be good. If you are bad at something and neglect it, it will probably be bad. It shouldn't matter too much how you do something or what it is made of. If someone just adds random resources and scripts they don't understand it will be a bad game. If someone tries to copy something someone else obviously did better it will be easy to tell. If someone uses resources and scripts well, they can make something great. If someone is able to understand and improve something that already exists, they should at least be able to take pride in that.

 

But then I am a scripter primarily, and I guess I come from this at a slightly different angle then most people, especially since I really like the whole free software movement. I really would genuinely welcome people editing and fiddling with my scripts, making them better. Heck I often find myself playing with other people's scripts as well so it's only fair. And, though I really do think of programing as a kind of art form, I can see how people who put something personal and special into their art would get annoyed at having it shared. I am not entirely convinced there is that much of a difference between sharing art in hope of making better resources and sharing code in order to make better scripts, but maybe I am not the right person to argue that.

 

I guess I am just dragging a lot of my weird ideologies into this discussion but I really do think sharing things can work in the long run.

[+ Retired 274]

Well to answer the question directly I don't think database sharing would work as a games mechanic vary greatly e.g maybe in my game heal only restores 5 HP (Max Hp is 10) but in your game Max hp is 9999.

 

Not to mention the multitude of different scripts and game genres we might have.

 

As for the rest of the sharing questions - we already have resource posts - tutorials and an entire section dedicated to the editor?