Plot ideas for a villain protagonist.

[Cactush 4]

Just because I want to make a game with a villain as the playable character, but I don't wanna make it generic.

 

Spill your ideas people!

[Tarq 746]

Well there are a few established ways to go with this:

 

1- The anti-hero; the villain isn't really a villain, he's just a misunderstood good guy whose methods are typically more violent than society as a whole can condone. Taxi Driver is a pretty good example, although when I read anything online most people don't seem to agree :/

 

2- The villain hero; the villain is a villain, and there's no doubt about it from our, and most people's, perspective. The villain though? He thinks he's an anti-hero because he's recognised a problem that no-one else has. He's like that drunk racist at the christmas party who insists that he's 'saying what we're all thinking, but he' the only one with the balls to say it'

 

3- The villain; this villain really is just a villain. Doing typical bad guy stuff for this guy provides the same emotional response that doing good guy stuff provides for the hero. He's simply made that way and there's almost a distinct lack of choice to his actions; he's the ying to the yang.

 

Picking one of these will give you a good grounding to coherently build the rest of the character off of.

Good luck with the game.

[Kayzee 4,032]

Okay, I know the PERFECT thing. I was just thinking about this. Bare with me.
 
So I was reading this Harry Potter fanfic a while ago right? Wait! No don't go this is good I promise! Anyway, the hook of this story was, that Harry Potter was born as twins, one buy and one girl. No no seriously I have a point. But their parent's never died, but the girl was thought to be a squib (magicless) so Dumbledore in his infinite manipulation told them it would be better if she was sent to live with muggles. No no, this get's really interesting I promise. Anyway long story short, she ends up with what would have been Harry's abusive foster parents, gets treated like shit, eventually kicked out onto the streat, was... well... raped, meats a voodoo witch, learns the blackest of black magic, get's revenge by brutally murdering her rapists and using their souls to make magical objects... and it get's worse and worse.
 
Okay the backstory is way way overly black and rape is really not the type of thing you want to use lightly if at all. And... their are other bad stuff in the fic that is pretty much worse. Point is, by the time her godfather wizard finds her,,, well she is NOT a good person, and has no desire to be. Today I was thinking. Are their are actually that many flat out psychotic FF6 Kefka/Batman Joker style gleefully psychotic villains that happened to be female? I mean ones that are in charge and absolutely enjoying themselves. And... well that story's character is not QUITE at that level, when she is in evil mode she is realllly in evil mode. I wasn't really thinking of villain protagonists really even though she is one in the story, but I am now.
 
So here is the thing, and I am not saying this to be all SJW or anything... I am not even sure if anyone in that camp would really even WANT to make this argument, but female villains? Often a bit... well not well done. Female protagonists? Yeah, games have some trouble there. Female villain protagonists? Are there even any? And no before anyone pipes up the "yandere" thing doesn't really count as a gppd example. So... I think it might be fun to try and think... could a interesting one be made? Without being sexist or sexualized? While being completely gleefuly psychotic? For reasons other then some love thing? That would be a interesting challenge now wouldn't it? Or would it? I think it might be interesting. Add to that one that is basically still a teen or even a child? Has that been done before? Probably. But done right? I don't know.

 

I have no idea if this is a idea or post is even slightly compatible with good taste or not. But... I kinda like the idea of a viscously manipulative sociopath serial killer witch that happens to be a little girl. One that knows exactly what she is doing, is completely unapologetic, and is even pretty damn pleased about it. Maybe she starts out trying to rid the world of lowlifes or evil people who had wronged her, maybe she regrets killing a few innocents that got in the way for a but... but in the end she can admit she just likes it. That would be... interesting. Don't know what that says about me, but... hey, I am a fairy.

Edited June 24, 2015 by KilloZapit

[Cactush 4]

That is...uh...quite the story, but interesting nonetheless. But to the point, I do like the idea of having a protagonist be evil, and stay absolutely evil. But in the end, I need a proper motivation for doing so, and proper "heroes" to oppose them, so to speak. Maybe I could do it in some form of episodic format, build up the villain from zero, and by the finale have then be an absolute creation of carnage.

[Aria1573 21]

What if your villain isn't a villain at all. Make a villain that is right in there goal but the means of which they use are not the most moral. Make a villain akin to Ra's Al Ghul. His goals overall are good and he never wishes to spill the blood of the innocent or unnecessary blood but his means of seeking his goal are not the best. Have your villain help the heroes at many different moments because there goals are allied with the heroes overall but at the end of the day the heroes and the villain fight because of what the villain has done or will do. Villains rarely see themselves as villains.

[_____ 214]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyDx5nG7koA

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4L2vPVZFR8

 

Check these videos out, they really help in the devolopment of villian characters.

[Guyver 65]

I made my villain very mysterious for a large part of the game. You find out later he was driven to madness and tried to destroy the world after his wife and children were murdered. He went off the deep end and raised an army of dragons and started scorching every town and castle he could find before being stopped. The main characters weren't even alive then, so you're living in a world scorched by his dragon fire that's slowly rebuilding what's left of humanity. You find out later his soul is still floating around, and he later gets a new body and tries to pick up where he left off. It's kind of like voldemort from harry potter and the horcrux.

 

At one point in the game, he's giving dragons to an orc army to use, and they attack a nearby town. By the time you get there, everyone is dead and the castle is being attacked so you ultimately fail to help anyone and are forced to run. I think that cements him as a villain for sure. If you want to make him REALLY evil, you can have him kill a dog....you have to be really evil to kill a dog.

 

Here's a screenshot of the town, it's old and I'm not on the pc with rpg maker on it to get a more recent one but it should give you an idea.

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2015 by theguyver

[Kayzee 4,032]

It might also be fun if the character were manipulative and charismatic enough to fake sympathy, at least at first. Like a true sociopath. Heck maybe introduce them as kind of a normal hero, even working WITH the actual heroes right up until they show their true colors and gleefully murder them all and blaim it on some other generic villain. Maybe it's like a generic dark lord and the protagonist just wants to steal their power and/or get revenge, but it is quite clear that the protagonist is in fact a bigger monster, though maybe more "chaotic evil" to the dark lord's "lawful evil".

 

Heck I could imagine that maybe you start as a generic blond idiot hero and recruit this sweet seeming shy dark magician girl stereotype who is the real protagonist, and kills the so called "chosen one" before his heroic quest can really get on the way, surprising the player completely. Then maybe she uses his soul or body in order to obtain the legendary weapons or hidden power he needs to defeat the dark lord. The forces of "good" or "light" are already screwed from the start, but it takes so long for anyone to notice. Or you could be mean and hide it from the player for at least a good quarter or half of the game before shit hits the fan and she takes her role as villain protagonist. But eh, I am not sure that kind of subversive bait and switch is what you had in mind.

 

I am kinda reminded of Frozen's villain actually if they actually ended up winning. Best Disney villain ever. Okay maybe not... it's hard to beat Maleficent.

Edited June 24, 2015 by KilloZapit

[JaiCrimson 22]

I wanted to do this myself but don't really see an opportunity for it arising any time soon.

 

My personal favorite thing is inflicting moral torment on my audience, but by doing so, causing moral enlightenment. You said you want a villain protagonist? Why not have the entire society share the villains philosophy. You could craft it so that the villain and her\his society are what our society would consider evil or morally wrong and then the person that would typically be our hero is the villain - all while trying to be just and morally righteous.

 

Say the villain is murderous and psychotic... however, the kingdom/city/whatever actually runs on murderous and psychotic systems. Such as "If you feel insulted or wronged in any way it is not only the right of the citizen but their god given duty to strike back and exact revenge." Or, "All are gifted the pursuit of happiness, regardless of whether or not that destroys the potential happiness, freedoms, or life of others." And finally, to abstract and alienate the hero, "Any who are found guilty for acting in a self righteous manner - interpretation and judgement open to any citizen - shall hereby be condemned to punishment equally opposite of the self righteous act (or whatever the judging citizen deems fit)."

 

I personally just want to see this put into action because I've always wanted to challenge societies view of heroism and what being a hero really means. Specifically because I don't count people like Captain America as a true hero (through my interpretation TRUE heroes don't intentionally kill... the Captain does.) I also don't count Superman as a true hero because he fights for a certain group instead of for all.

 

So yeah if any of that made sense feel free to utilize it if you like if not eh hope you enjoyed the read!

Edited June 25, 2015 by JaiCrimson

[+ Sughayyer 163]

This reminds me of Dark Wizard, a very old strategy game for the defunct SegaCD.

You had four scenarios to choose from, and in one of them you were a vampire who murders and assumes the form of the king, to lead the battle against the dark wizard and prove he is the true ruler of darkness.

[lonequeso 1,921]

I think I can provide you with a simple very basic story arc to go from. Traditional RPG's follow a very simple formula.

You have a hero or group of heroes. You have a villain. Either the villain is already super powerful or trying to get there.

Either way, the heroes and villain(s) have an epic battle at the end. Everything in between the start and end is to level up and possibly grow your party, gain the skills, items, equipment, etc. to be able to defeat the super strong villain. Sounds kind of boring when it's boiled down. What makes the game entertaining, is all the countless ways you can guide the player from start to end. 

 

For a true villain character, all you have to do is switch roles. The villain begins weak. There's either an established group of super strong heroes protecting your world or trying to gain that strength through from relic or source of power and/or trying to prevent that power from falling into the wrong hands. In either case, villain must become stronger, build a party, get items, etc. in order to defeat the heroes. How you decide which of the countless ways to get the villain from start to end is up to you.

 

It's a simple formula that's easy to build/expand upon. I do have to say, I like the idea of the main character being a sociopath.

Anyone who aims to conquer or destroy the world most likely is one. It would be really really super fun to develop a main character like that, and I would definitely buy a game like that.

 

One other thing. This is neither here or there. The idea  literally made me LOL.

 

2- The villain hero; the villain is a villain, and there's no doubt about it from our, and most people's, perspective. The villain though? He thinks he's an anti-hero because he's recognised a problem that no-one else has. He's like that drunk racist at the christmas party who insists that he's 'saying what we're all thinking, but he' the only one with the balls to say it'

 

When I read that the first thing that popped in my head was: Donald Trump. If you go with a villain-hero just mirror The Donald.

It would be epic!

[Cactush 4]

So, say that the Aspiring Villain must have an enemy of some sort, why not make their encounters comical? Would you guys approve of a rather comical relationship between the Villain and their enemy, or keep their encounters more serious?

[Kayzee 4,032]

So, say that the Aspiring Villain must have an enemy of some sort, why not make their encounters comical? Would you guys approve of a rather comical relationship between the Villain and their enemy, or keep their encounters more serious?

 

I would say it probably depends on the writing, character motivation, and the type of story you want to tell. Maybe a bit of a wishy washy statement but it's true. I could on the one hand imagine the villain protagonist's enemy being less a real enemy and more a clueless sap who just gets under the villain protagonist's skin for many many small petty reasons, having most of their relationship involving the villain protagonist getting annoyed and going off into foaming at the mouth angry rant mode. But that kind of set up kinda makes the villain protagonist's enemy a joke by default and therefor not really a serious threat or exploration into the nature of evil or anything like that.

 

I guess you could have the relationship start off comical, with the villain protagonist ranting and raving like a mad man, and then turn serious. either with the villain protagonist suddenly going way too far and doing something horrible (and maybe not regretting it, making their funny idle threats and ranting not so funny anymore) or their enemy turning out to actually be a major threat. It depends on how well you can pull off something like that.

Edited August 13, 2015 by KilloZapit

[lonequeso 1,921]

I posted on a similar thread earlier today. Some basic ideas of what types of villains you can create.

 

"I'd love to play as a villain. I mean a true villain. Not an anti-hero or someone who starts off a villain and transforms to a hero or was a hero all along without realizing it. Someone who just wants to watch the world burn. Imagine playing a Batman game from the Joker's perspective. Playing as a criminal psychopath whose only goals are to cause fear, mayhem, and destruction, and mess with- not even necessarily kill- the hero. Half of the Joker's motivation stemmed from messing with Batman's head. He wouldn't know what to do with himself if Batman died. Probably cause more mayhem and destruction, but he'd be bored doing it.

 

The other way it can be done is to play as a villain who has noble intentions, but his methodology is downright evil. You can find examples of those everywhere. Dr. Doom believes he can bring about world peace and end all poverty if he ruled the world with an iron fist. Magneto really just wants his mutant kin to live in peace. He decided the best way to do that is to kill every non-mutant. Even Adolf Hitler thought he was helping the world by ethnically cleaning it so only the Aryan race was left. That's more an example of a sociopath who thinks their intentions are noble. I wouldn't recommend making a game where the ultimate goal is mass genocide. Prolly won't be well received. . .        

                                                                                                                                                 . . . except by sociopaths."

 

 

                                                                                                                                                     -Me, Myself, and I

[HumanNinja 144]

My two cents: I think it's important to realize that most villians, whether sane or not, don't see themselves as a villian. They do what they do because it's just, or right, in their eyes. I believe it's when someone's goals begin to impede on other people's right to life that brands that person a villian.

 

One example that comes to mind is the villian in Tales of Vesperia. He turns out to be the leader of the knights that your characters essentially work with/for. While this villian is essentially trying to do good, the way he goes about it imposes on other people's right to life, which makes him a baddie.

 

Another example is the game Rise of Cthulu. You begin the game as the supreme being Cthulu but, you've lost much of your power. While you travel in an attempt to regain that lost power (so that you can destroy the world) you are constantly confronted by bands of would-be heroes trying to make a name for themselves by taking you out.

 

Good luck with your project.

[Kayzee 4,032]

My two cents: I think it's important to realize that most villians, whether sane or not, don't see themselves as a villian. They do what they do because it's just, or right, in their eyes. I believe it's when someone's goals begin to impede on other people's right to life that brands that person a villian.

Honestly, I don't really think this is actually true. Maybe it's true in real life to an extent, but it's rather hard to argue that Joker or Kefka or any other typical cartoonishly evil villain, thinks of themselves as anything other then "the bad guy". Tyrannical evil overlord type villains are maybe a bit more debatable, but most of them would be perfectly okay being labeled as "evil" as long as they get what they want. And that is the real difference between a villain and an anti-hero/anti-villain: Villi ans don't care that they are villains, or even enjoy it. A anti-hero/anti-villain will try and justify what they do, even if it's only to themselves. A 100% full villain won't. Even if they feel they are making the world a better place somehow, that is more or less just a coincidence to them. Villains are in it for money, or power, revenge, or some other selfish motive. That is what a villain is to me, someone who is ultimately selfish and does everything for personal gain. They can help the heroes or the world but only to farther their own plans, and they now it. It's true they most likely would never use the word villain to describe themselves, but when push comes to shove the only reason they would care is for good PR.

[HumanNinja 144]

Honestly, I don't really think this is actually true. Maybe it's true in real life to an extent, but it's rather hard to argue that Joker or Kefka or any other typical cartoonishly evil villain, thinks of themselves as anything other then "the bad guy". Tyrannical evil overlord type villains are maybe a bit more debatable, but most of them would be perfectly okay being labeled as "evil" as long as they get what they want. And that is the real difference between a villain and an anti-hero/anti-villain: Villi ans don't care that they are villains, or even enjoy it. A anti-hero/anti-villain will try and justify what they do, even if it's only to themselves. A 100% full villain won't. Even if they feel they are making the world a better place somehow, that is more or less just a coincidence to them. Villains are in it for money, or power, revenge, or some other selfish motive. That is what a villain is to me, someone who is ultimately selfish and does everything for personal gain. They can help the heroes or the world but only to farther their own plans, and they now it. It's true they most likely would never use the word villain to describe themselves, but when push comes to shove the only reason they would care is for good PR.

I see your point with villians like Kefka and Joker but, those types of villians are usually the ones that break the fourth wall and are written that way on purpose.

 

I believe even the most vile of villians still do what they are doing because they believe they are right. Take Sauron in the LOTR. He's basically a fantastical Hitler who believes the world will be a better place with certain races completely wiped out and himself as the supreme ruler.

 

I agree with some of your ideas but I don't want to label a villian an 'anti-hero' based on him/her having a conscience. But then again, maybe that's exactly where we should draw the distinction. What I do believe however, is that a villian with no personal motive for being bad other just wanting to cause pain and/or wreak havoc is boring. Kefka had shock value because we gamers hadn't seen that too often back in the early 90s. Joker has decades of history behind him, much of which is filled with deeper insight into his motives.

[Kayzee 4,032]

Come on, say what you will, but LOTR is as basic black and white good vs evil as you can get. Sauron is basically Satan (well, Satan's understudy really, the real ultimate evil was Morgoth). And yes you could also argue, and has been many times, that Satan himself actually sees what he as doing as somehow "good", but that is definitely not what is happening in this context. Morgoth's motivation was stated explicitly to be because he was obsessed with finding the "secret fire" and usurping Eru as the supreme god, and Sauron is just following in his footsteps. Maybe yes, they think the world might be a "better place", for them and them alone. There ARE "evil" overlords that DO honestly think the world would be better for everyone with them in charge, like Dr. Doom, but Tolkien strongly believed in unambiguous lines of Capitol G Good and Capitol E Evil, as per his Christian beliefs. That this perhaps kinda boring and not really that realistic is besides the point.

 

And in real life, well, comparing Sauron to Hitler isn't that far off, but Sauron was an archetype, a force of nature, a plot device that the heros reacted to. Hitler was a man who was complicated and messy and no one is really sure how much of what he did was because he was simply crazy, how much was because he really believed he was making the world better, and how much was him just using pretty promises and directing blame for his own personal power. And there are TONS of people like that throughout history, many of which are running around right now. If even 1% of them are genuinely sadistically unrelentingly "evil", that's still a hell of a lot of people. Saying no one ever woke up and thought "hey... I think I may be evil" and deciding they were okay with that is really kind of naive. Some people really do just wanna watch the world burn.

 

Also, slightly related, but I think it should be noted that there are kinda of two kinds of evil in lots of fantasy stories as I see it. There is cosmological/political evil, and actual evil. Far too often "evil" in fantasy stories is just a label for a cosmic force or political ideologies that stands in position to "good". This is particularly unfortunately true when D&D-like alignment-based races and lands come into play.  This is why we have races or factions that are labeled as warning, tvtropes, yadda yadda), and there are nations ruled by "evil" and so on. Imagine when self-described "good" people or forces start to basically make themselves into huge pricks and repress everyone so everyone is like "Hey good people are pricks! I wanna be evil then!" and find some suitably evil sounding philosophy or group and join up. Yes this happens in real life too, it's just that in real life no one really takes anyone seriously if they use the e-word to describe themselves this way, and most of these kinda groups in real life have explicit and thought out ethical philosophy and wouldn't just say, let "actual evil" child killers run around free.

Edited August 17, 2015 by KilloZapit

[watermark 1]

But to the point, I do like the idea of having a protagonist be evil, and stay absolutely evil. But in the end, I need a proper motivation for doing so, and proper "heroes" to oppose them, so to speak. Maybe I could do it in some form of episodic format, build up the villain from zero, and by the finale have then be an absolute creation of carnage.

 

Playing absolute evil? I know these days it's popular and politically correct to have villains who think they're really doing good, or became evil because of some sad trauma in the past so as to give the villain some just cause. What if there was none of that?

 

It makes me think of the phrase: Power corrupts.

 

Here's an idea: You get to play a spoiled heir to the Kingdom, who also happens to be a kickass mage so you're damn near invincible and won't have to worry about rebellion. The game starts as you inherit the throne, when no one, not even your wise mentor who you have executed immediately, dares oppose you. Since you can do whatever you want, you can go into town, take whatever you want, and kill anyone who complains. You will take all the prettiest girls into your harem, and throw their former boyfriends and husbands into the dungeons. You will force the best artisans to carve you wonderful statues, and smash their final masterpieces for fun. You will have the best chefs cook lavish feasts where you only nibble a few bites before throwing out the entire thing into the sewers, right in front of the starving masses.

 

Am I exaggerating? Actually quite a few tyrants in history did exactly these things.

 

After you go on a binge for a while, eventually a hero rises to try to overthrow you. He will gather a band from those wronged by you. What happens after this is up to you.

 

I think the theme of this game would be: Will absolute power make one happy? You the player will be playing this invincible overlord who can get anything he (or she) wants over the sacrifices of others. But will this make you happy? You will have all the material comforts, but will never have true love, peace of mind, or friendship. Maybe some people will say, sure, I'll trade all that true love garbage for absolute power anytime. Or maybe not...

 

Anyway just throwing out random ideas. Hope it helps. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by watermark

[lonequeso 1,921]

I like Watermark's idea. It would make a great movie. There's already a TV show about it. (I think. I've never actually watched Tyrant.) The only issue with it is translating that into game play. You'd already start the game at a really high level. There's no need to go questing to become stronger, and you already have everything you need. To make it work, you could go outside the traditional RPG formula. The name of the game evades me atm, but there was a game where the player got be a James Bond-esque super villain. The premise of the game was you, the super villain, are hiding safely away in your secret liar. The objective is to set up various traps to stop the hero from reaching you and foiling your plans. Cool strategy game. I'm not sure how well that'd translate into a more RPG styled game. 

 

Another idea is to give the tyrant a chance to get the one thing all tyrants want. More power. The heroes would also be after this source of power whatever it may be in order to overthrow you.

 

That or the tyrant can be overconfident and seek to destroy the heroes right off the bat, but they are stronger than h/she realizes. The tyrant narrowly escapes, and thinks to himself, "Shit. I need to become stronger."  Each of those would provide some conflict.

 

Also, you can blatantly infringe on copyrights and make a Batman game where you're the Joker 

 

Or Maybe Sauron and Hitler are each trying to take over the world, and you get to choose which one you want t play as.

Or, if you don't want to be sued, make two original villains to fight for power. You could even throw in a band of heroes to meddle in their affairs. 

 

I just downed a large coffee, so I'm full of sugar and caffeine atm. Ideas tend to flow for me when that happens. I hope my over-caffeinated ramblings help you with your....                uhh...                      ...what was the topic again?

[zebaroth 6]

you could go the way i am with a game i am doing this and make him a nice guy who is the new darklord

and he is just trying to bring order back in to the wolrd