Play as the bad guy?

[Lord Vectra 414]

Would you play as the bad guy?

[JBYT_Joseph 12]

This question has came up many times, and to it, I say yes!  Playing as the "protagonist" when that guy's the true "bad guy" can make for a different type of game, one that is fun in its own little way.  The same goes for parts of a game where roles are switched.  It's a little tricky, but when pulled off right, role swaps like this can be interesting.

[Rikifive 3,411]

To answer that question shortly: Why not?

 

That would be something uncommon, so I would be interested in seeing something like this. 

[+ Crescent 474]

It's also yes on my side, there's not an issue if we play as an antagonist.

[Nekotori 739]

Yes~ I like unique rpg storylines since I'm kinda sick at saving the world~

[Kayzee 4,033]

Sure! Although it probably depends on the character and story. It might be more fun to start as another character who is a good guy and play with them for a while before the real main character shows up and pretends to be an ally before killing them and taking over the main character role. I still want to see a game where the main character is a evil little girl who is NOT a yandere (aka just "delightfully evil because it's fun" as opposed to "love made me crazy")  myself.

[devonm0 37]

What if you play as the antagonist in a post-game extra chapter of sorts?  For example, the 'good guy' beats the 'bad guy' and 'saves the world', and then years later the world comes under attack by 'insert dark forces here' or whatever.  As it would turn out, the 'bad guy' wasn't trying to rule the world as everyone thought he was.  He was in fact trying to unify the people against the impending threat; in his own bizarre way.  For this example I'm going to say that the 'bad guy' is an immortal who was defeated by having his spirit separated from his body and sealed in another dimension.  So you would play as the spirit of the 'bad guy' trying to return to his body by crossing dimensions.  Ultimately the game's antagonist manages to find his way back and, though weakened from the previous separation he finds the protagonist, who by the way goes through the plot of the game with the title 'The Dark Knight'.  The two fight again, and this time the antagonist musters the strength to take out the protagonist, who in the end is revealed to have been deceiving the general public about his intentions.  In truth he is a high ranking officer of the dark army, and the 'antagonist' was someone who the Dark Knight was trying to rally the people against as part of his scheme.

 

I think I've said this around here before, but epics, tales of war, and even history itself.  It is my belief that these things are written the way the victors of such great battles want them to come across.  It may not be accurate, but that doesn't matter in the long run

 

It might sound like I'm taking this from a game of my own, but I'm not.

[+ CVincent 234]

@devonm0

 

That was an oddly specific scenario, lol.

 

 

Anyway, would I play as the bad guy? Should I?

 

What would make that interesting to me as the player? Should the idea of "being the bad guy" be good enough for me to want to experience that side of a character? It has been done in games before and often isn't is as entertaining to me in most of those cases.

 

My writer has brought up a quote every time we pitch an idea to each other. We both forget where it came from but the quote was, "Is this the most interesting time in the character's life?"

 

So, in that case.. Is it?

 

The concept of "what if" is sometimes concerning. I wouldn't want to play a game as the "bad guy" if it was simply for the fact of playing as the bad guy. Where's the fun in that? I don't see that appealing to the widest audience of people and in most cases I'd rather play neutral to give me the option of controlling a situation.

 

Character development and emotional manipulation should lead the player into making the choices they choose. That is how you turn a simple character into a complex one. When a player decides to do "bad" things in a game it's often emotionally driven. Have you played any games when you've done something morally wrong but felt justified in your action(s)?

 

I would play as the bad guy if their character was developed correctly and if the actions I'd make in the game made me feel that they were justified. I would not play as the bad guy just to step on the edge of morality.

[Kayzee 4,033]

But if they are ultimately right, or good all along, how can they be the bad guy?

[Tsarmina 2,612]

@Killo: Well, maybe it would be possible in a game where it's unclear what's good/bad or right/wrong? I'm not sure, but having a purely bad guy as the PC who ends up destroying the world seems a little depressing sometimes. ._."

 

@all: I would love to play as an "antagonist" in a more morally based or political kind of game where loyalties often change and it's hard to tell if you're doing the right thing or not c: It would be really cool to have the player do what they think is correct and then find out they are the antagonist all along! ^^

[Knighterius 502]

Star Wars: Knights of the old Republic essentially pulled it off when you played as Reven or whatever. But theoretically, playing as the bad guy is pretty common now a days when given a "karma" system and most people enjoy making their own choices. You should, however, get a great deal of positive feedback from an "alternative view point" as your game is going to be categorized under "indie" anyway; so you better make the most of it.

[Kayzee 4,033]

@Killo: Well, maybe it would be possible in a game where it's unclear what's good/bad or right/wrong? I'm not sure, but having a purely bad guy as the PC who ends up destroying the world seems a little depressing sometimes. ._."

 

@all: I would love to play as an "antagonist" in a more morally based or political kind of game where loyalties often change and it's hard to tell if you're doing the right thing or not c: It would be really cool to have the player do what they think is correct and then find out they are the antagonist all along! ^^

 

Who said they have to destroy the world, or even necessarily win in the end? Their goals could be much smaller in scope then that. They could just be concerned with murdering or theiving their way to riches, or petty revenge, or any number of goals that don't end up screwing the world over but still are pretty evil. Maybe they actually fail in the end, or maybe their evil acts end up making the world a slightly better place by accident. Besides I do think playing as a villain who tries and succeeds in ruling the world would probably not be that depressing if done right.

[RawGreen 0]

I would love to play a game where you start as a good guy and become the villain, and your goal ends up being to prevent your old comrades from achieving the goals you once shared together.

[Capt_Elfimis 55]

I think being the bad guy can be an interesting role to play for sure, albeit it would take some creative writing and plot choices to really keep players engaged though. 

One thing I heavily consider in my writing process of both the story and dialogue is "Is this what the player would want to do?" "What would the player think of this choice?" "Is this what the player would say?"

So answer these questions from the "Bad Guy" point of view and ask if the player would innately want  to make bad decisions and if those decisions would keep them engaged. 

 

From a dev point of view, any story and plot can be engaging and entertaining for the player as long as you set it up in a way that is appealing and keeps them coming back for more. I would like to see a good

story idea like this happen, hell i'd even work on the project

[lonequeso 1,921]

I'd love to play as a villain. I mean a true villain. Not an anti-hero or someone who starts off a villain and transforms to a hero or was a hero all along without realizing it. Someone who just wants to watch the world burn. Imagine playing a Batman game from the Joker's perspective. Playing as a criminal psychopath whose only goals are to cause fear, mayhem, and destruction, and mess with- not even necessarily kill- the hero. Half of the Joker's motivation stemmed from messing with Batman's head. He wouldn't know what to do with himself if Batman died. Probably cause more mayhem and destruction, but he'd be bored doing it.

 

The other way it can be done is to play as a villain who has noble intentions, but his methodology is downright evil. You can find examples of those everywhere. Dr. Doom believes he can bring about world peace and end all poverty if he ruled the world with an iron fist. Magneto really just wants his mutant kin to live in peace. He decided the best way to do that is to kill every non-mutant. Even Adolf Hitler thought he was helping the world by ethnically cleaning it so only the Aryan race was left. That's more an example of a sociopath who thinks their intentions are noble. I wouldn't recommend making a game where the ultimate goal is mass genocide. Prolly won't be well received. . .        

                                                                                                                                                 . . . except by sociopaths.

[Squires 35]

Oh! I'm currently making a game where you play as the bad guy! I'm lucky I came around this topic. xD  
 

Don't click unless you're okay with spoilers  

I think a good example of playing as the bad guy would be in Assassin's Creed: Rogue. I absolutely loved that game, and being able to play as the bad guys (Templars) made me feel that the bad ones weren't really bad at all. When Shay confronts Achilles after the earthquake, he says that he killed innocents and that the Assassin's didn't know what they were doing. After, around the end of the game, Achilles finds another Shard of Eden, realizing that shay was right all along. Sorry for spoilers. >-< I warned people.  I only play AC for the storyline though, I really like the storyline in that series. However, there are a few games I might mention that wouldn't be half bad if the antagonist was the main character.

 

 

 

Imagine playing a Batman game from the Joker's perspective. Playing as a criminal psychopath whose only goals are to cause fear, mayhem, and destruction, and mess with- not even necessarily kill- the hero. Half of the Joker's motivation stemmed from messing with Batman's head. He wouldn't know what to do with himself if Batman died. Probably cause more mayhem and destruction, but he'd be bored doing it.

This sounds quite cool, actually. I'm pretty sure this happens in one of the games, as like a troll or something, I can't remember.

[lonequeso 1,921]

Lol this thread actually gave me an idea for a villain protagonist. 

[Sleepless 26]

I've actually had many a conversation about this topic, and simply put this is how I feel:

 

You can't play as the villain. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is how it works, right? You play as someone who has goals, and someone stands in their way to stop those goals. The person you play as you sympathize with and want to succeed. 

 

That makes the player characters the heroes, and those against them the villains. So by pure definition, even if you are playing as the "villain",  that makes them the "hero".

 

With this logic, it's kinda hard to write a villain protag because you have to sympathize with what they're doing. If you want a "hero" to succeed who acts like a villain and those "villains" against him who act like heroes and are doing good things... it creates a complicated situation where you don't sympathize with the character you're playing as. However, maybe people want that. I'm just saying this all from a storytelling standpoint, since storytelling is my specialty, I'd say.

 

However, I want any and all people to correct me if I'm wrong on anything that I just said. I'm just relaying conversations I've had before on the topic~ And I'm not trying to be a butt either or anything! D: Just putting thoughts out there~

Edited August 28, 2015 by Sleepless

[lonequeso 1,921]

There was another thread about this. In that, the wording was "villain protagonist". Technically, the term "villain protagonist" is an oxymoron. So yes, that would actually be impossible. It's more accurate to say you play as the antagonist. That can be done. And I gots me an idea 

 

 

it creates a complicated situation where you don't sympathize with the character you're playing as. 

 

It can. If your avatar is someone who just wants to see the world burn, and the player wants him to succeed in that goal, it can create sympathy. A very twisted form of sympathy.  Aww... If I die, I can't release this nerve toxin and kill thousands of people. Lol. Even I think that's messed up.  Another example is a movie where the antagonist is a serial killer. Very clearly disturbed and evil, but then you learn about how he had an extremely abusive, horrible upbringing. By then end of the movie, you can't help feeling just a little bit sorry for him. Of course in those movies, the villain loses.

 

Neither of those are my idea. The first example was pretty much my previous point of playing as the Joker. The poor guy's due for a win. Personally, I'd be pulling for him.

 

The second could be translated into a game. It would be the most disturbing, depressing game ever, but it could be done. It probably won't be well-received. It's more a case of should it be done. Also, it may literally drive you insane trying to create it.

 

 

However, I want any and all people to correct me if I'm wrong on anything that I just said. I'm just relaying conversations I've had before on the topic~ And I'm not trying to be a butt either or anything! D: Just putting thoughts out there~

 

 

Don't worry, you're not butting in. I'm happy this topic got some more responses. It's a very simple question, with a very complex answer. These topics are always fun to debate. 

[Kayzee 4,033]

Why do you have to sympathize with the main character for it to be a good story? And why can't you sympathize with someone who just is unrepentantly evil anyway? It's not like there isn't a part of most people that kinda likes to see the world burn.

 

I am suddenly reminded of a particularly famous RPG Maker 2003 game, but to say very much more would be a huuuge spoiler.

 

It's OFF. It turns out that The Batter who you have been mostly playing as isn't exactly a good guy... Also the disembodied spirit who acts as the player may or may not actually be a evil space ape or something?

 

Edited August 28, 2015 by KilloZapit

[lonequeso 1,921]

 

And why can't you sympathize with someone who just is unrepentantly evil anyway?

 

I'd be one of those people. All he wants to do is blow up the planet with a giant laser. Why can't you people just let him live his dream and be happy for him? It's not like he's hurting anyone. Oh wait. . .  Nope. Still rooting for him. I'd love to play as that guy.

 

Generally a good story actually makes you care about what happens to the main character. Ever watch a movie where you didn't care at all about any of the characters? Boring, right? 

[Kayzee 4,033]

Yeah, but you can also care what happens in a negative way, enjoying when they get hurt and rivaling in pure schadenfreude. That takes a particular kind of skill and set up too. You can't have wicked fun with a story where nothing makes you care about it at all.

 

Admit it, sometimes people just enjoy gleeful villains being charmingly evil.

Edited August 28, 2015 by KilloZapit

[Lord Vectra 414]

Like the Joker

[Sleepless 26]

Those are both very good points, actually. When put like that, I see the intrigue in why someone would create a game like that. It kind of feeds into darker thoughts we all have sometimes and living out those fantasies.

 

 

The second could be translated into a game. It would be the most disturbing, depressing game ever, but it could be done. It probably won't be well-received. It's more a case of should it be done. Also, it may literally drive you insane trying to create it.

 

That is very, very true! Quite terrifying if you think about it :s

 

Although I do really like the idea you put out there [about a Joker-esque villain protag] and I would be all for that, actually. I'm very interested as well to see what that would look like.

Yeah, but you can also care what happens in a negative way, enjoying when they get hurt and rivaling in pure schadenfreude. That takes a particular kind of skill and set up too. You can't have wicked fun with a story where nothing makes you care about it at all.

 

Admit it, sometimes people just enjoy gleeful villains being charmingly evil.

Edit: Again, the more thought I put into this, the more the idea is becoming appealing to me.

 

Personally I love villains. I think they make or break a story. Enjoyable villains can sometimes, if they're written really well or are just enjoyable as hell, can save a mediocre or even bad story with all of the awesome that they exude. And if a person could capture that amazingness and have that be the guy you root for? Sounds like a sweet deal to me. 

[lonequeso 1,921]

I enjoy evil in all it's forms  Schadenfreude def. awesome Scrabble word There's a song by Tool about that, but that's a whole 'nother subject.

 

I suppose you could make a carefree game where the main character is still evil. Especially if it involves mindless rampant destruction, humor, and mayhem. As far as games go, I was talking about more traditional RPG's.

If you can find a way to fuse the two, that- that would be EPIC! That would essentially be the Joker V. Batman example. Super serious hero trying to save his city, and the crazy ass clown killing and blowing stuff up just for funsies. But it would be an RPG where you can level up the Joker, and give him special skills and equipment to help him cause mayhem, and recruit other villains to add to the party. It would have a decidedly cartoony look Someone call DC, that needs to made!