First Mapping Experience

[MasterApplesauc 2]

Hey there guys, this is my first time mapping in both VXAce and in making a desert. I've never been one to be creative enough to make a story or an actual game, but the mapping has always blown me away. So this is my attempt at mapping.

 

The pictures:

• Town:    
  
  

• -     Armory:
  

• -     Tavern:
  

• -     Sword Shop:
  

• -     Item Shop:
  

• -     Player Home:
  

• Desert:
  

• -     Cave:

  

• -     Tent:
  

•       -    Oasis:
  

 

 

[xoferew 261]

Cool, I like all the details and I can see you have lots of events on there which will probably bring it even more to life.  I'm kind of suspicious if you can really hang shelves and swords and stuff from the walls of tents(?)  But your buildings look stone from the outside(?)  Also I notice in your tavern there is a raised area but the wall is the same height all the way around.  Is it a platform within the room, so the rest of the walls should be higher, or an actual second floor?  Some things you might want to clarify.

 

Looks like a fun place to explore.  I'm getting hot and thirsty just looking at it!

[MasterApplesauc 2]

Cool, I like all the details and I can see you have lots of events on there which will probably bring it even more to life.  I'm kind of suspicious if you can really hang shelves and swords and stuff from the walls of tents(?)  But your buildings look stone from the outside(?)  Also I notice in your tavern there is a raised area but the wall is the same height all the way around.  Is it a platform within the room, so the rest of the walls should be higher, or an actual second floor?  Some things you might want to clarify.

 

Looks like a fun place to explore.  I'm getting hot and thirsty just looking at it!

You know, The town was originally a bunch of tents and when I changed it I completely neglected to change the inside wall tiles! And yes it is a platform within the room, and I definitely should have made all the walls one more higher it just didn't look right to me.

 

Thank you for your insight and bringing the walls to my attention.

 

EDIT:

I've attached an updated item shop graphic. It doesn't look right to me - insight?

I've also attached a second tavern photo, fixing the walls, and adding a second set of stairs where the wall goes back to being single.

 

Comments and Critiques are welcome!

Edited August 9, 2015 by MasterApplesauc

[Capt_Elfimis 55]

Attention to detail is definitely really nice in these maps. The use of space feels appropriate and each maps seems to follow it's purpose in a sensible manner. Overall I really like them and think they are pretty solid, especially the one with the broken tracks going into the cave wall, very nice.

The only suggestion I have would be to vary the size just a bit. All of these are relatively small and seem like they would feel a bit confining when playing the actual game, other than that keep up the good work.

[MasterApplesauc 2]

Attention to detail is definitely really nice in these maps. The use of space feels appropriate and each maps seems to follow it's purpose in a sensible manner. Overall I really like them and think they are pretty solid, especially the one with the broken tracks going into the cave wall, very nice.

 

The only suggestion I have would be to vary the size just a bit. All of these are relatively small and seem like they would feel a bit confining when playing the actual game, other than that keep up the good work.

 

Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate the compliments and have taken the suggestions into advisement. I created a forest to test out making a larger map. Take a look and advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Capt_Elfimis 55]

Now that's an interesting map, I really dig the initial layout. Walking around that makes the landscape feel natural with no uniformity. I would add some more clutter and detail (rocks,stumps,logs, bushes, etc.) variety to really make it pop! Again, good work

[MasterApplesauc 2]

Now that's an interesting map, I really dig the initial layout. Walking around that makes the landscape feel natural with no uniformity. I would add some more clutter and detail (rocks,stumps,logs, bushes, etc.) variety to really make it pop! Again, good work

Really, more clutter? Haha I thought I had a lot to begin with! I can add more, but the question is, how much is too much?

[Capt_Elfimis 55]

Just a broader variation of it, just keep a balance of large objects v.s. small objects. Here is an example of one of mine that is similar, I use a much larger amount of clutter but in a manner that is visually appealing to the eye and makes sense with the design, flow, location, and environment of the map. Also a decent bit of color variety is key, try to have a broad color palette

[MasterApplesauc 2]

Alright so this is my map a bit closer. I see what you're talking about how mine is a lot more bare compared to yours.

So you'd recommend adding a bit more clutter of rocks and having a brighter/vibrant color palette?

Edited August 9, 2015 by MasterApplesauc

[Capt_Elfimis 55]

 

So you'd recommend adding a bit more clutter of rocks and having a brighter/vibrant color palette?

 

If it matches the environment and setting of the area, then yes. Brighter/Vibrant depends on the particular setting. For instance, A sea-side fishing port by the mountains would probably be foggy/gloomy with lots of grey/blue tones so bright and vibrant wouldn't work there. 

 

A variety makes the landscape look much more natural, I often recommend researching reference images of real areas to relate to the type of environment your trying to create. Not to necessarily replicate it 100% but to get an idea of the actual variety that natural landscapes make up. A single field of grass could have many shades of green,brown,yellow,tan etc all within the same field even though its just grass. These color variations and varieties are what you should aim for in your maps as well as they make the areas feel more natural and believable to the player.

[+ Brackev 66]

Also, be careful with your shadows.  It's partially done in some maps.  Personally, I say to remove them all from the desert maps and from the interiors.  Desert because it's sunny everywhere, and inside because the sun isn't there to cast light.

You have potential to be a great mapper.

[xoferew 261]

I wonder if that corner around the raised platform would look less confusing like this?

Also, see how I shift-pasted the stove stuff onto the wall?  I think you did that with some other stuff.  If you don't do that, then your wall behind the stove area seems too short.  What do you think?

The perspective in this type of RPG is unnatural (not yours, everyone's) so anything we can do to help the player suspend their disbelief goes a long way.

Edit:  oh wait, now I see your stairs on the right.  But now I'm getting confused because how many levels are in this one-story tent/building?  Why not just have all the walls 2 tiles high except around the platform, or else have separate maps if it is more of a two story building?

Edited August 10, 2015 by xoferew

[MasterApplesauc 2]

 

 

So you'd recommend adding a bit more clutter of rocks and having a brighter/vibrant color palette?

 

If it matches the environment and setting of the area, then yes. Brighter/Vibrant depends on the particular setting. For instance, A sea-side fishing port by the mountains would probably be foggy/gloomy with lots of grey/blue tones so bright and vibrant wouldn't work there. 

 

A variety makes the landscape look much more natural, I often recommend researching reference images of real areas to relate to the type of environment your trying to create. Not to necessarily replicate it 100% but to get an idea of the actual variety that natural landscapes make up. A single field of grass could have many shades of green,brown,yellow,tan etc all within the same field even though its just grass. These color variations and varieties are what you should aim for in your maps as well as they make the areas feel more natural and believable to the player.

 

 

Alright thank you for your advice. I'll definitely do a little bit of research into the environments before I go about placing stuff haha. I understand what you mean when you say don't replicate it. It's more of getting a rough idea of how it should look. This is something that you do?

 

Also, be careful with your shadows.  It's partially done in some maps.  Personally, I say to remove them all from the desert maps and from the interiors.  Desert because it's sunny everywhere, and inside because the sun isn't there to cast light.

You have potential to be a great mapper.

 

Thank you for the compliment, I will experiment with removing the inside shadows, that makes sense too for the desert. I appreciate the advice. At the end of this post I'm attaching a photo of the tavern that I remade using desert tiles and I removed the inside shadow. What do you think?

 

I wonder if that corner around the raised platform would look less confusing like this?

 

Also, see how I shift-pasted the stove stuff onto the wall?  I think you did that with some other stuff.  If you don't do that, then your wall behind the stove area seems too short.  What do you think?

The perspective in this type of RPG is unnatural (not yours, everyone's) so anything we can do to help the player suspend their disbelief goes a long way.

Edit:  oh wait, now I see your stairs on the right.  But now I'm getting confused because how many levels are in this one-story tent/building?  Why not just have all the walls 2 tiles high except around the platform, or else have separate maps if it is more of a two story building?

 

Ahh yes thank you I appreciate the layout redesign. It didn't feel right before but that layout and the way it looks is just right. I used that as a template and remade the map and removed the shadows as recommended by Brackev. Can I get some critique?

Edited August 11, 2015 by MasterApplesauc

[+ CVincent 234]

I'm really not a fan of pasting ground tiles on a wall, it takes away from the natural perspective RPG maker lends to you. The layout of the building is quite nice, however you don't need to make extra space if it will not end up being used. Areas behind a bar are often crowded anyhow. You naturally have an angled perspective and by placing tiles like stoves on a wall it simply makes things look out of place in my opinion.

 

Only objects that are relevant to the player should/need to be in their view, so for example in your earlier pictures you have the layout of an entire building but the player can not access some parts of it. This tends to tell the player there is something to be found but leaves them confused when they realize there is nothing for them. A lot of the older RPG games would only show the player the backs of rooms if they could somehow access them.

 

If you've ever played Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past on the SNES, you'll notice this room where you find a bottle. This is an example of how showing a player a room can teach them that they are able to reach that area some how.

Edited August 11, 2015 by CVincent

[xoferew 261]

Yeah, I'm not meaning to say you must always paste furnishings on the wall, but in the original tavern map it was unclear to me how high the wall was supposed to be and whether or not you had intended to paste the stove on. 

 

I think it looks good now. 

[+ CVincent 234]

 

 

Yeah, I'm not meaning to say you must always paste furnishings on the wall, but in the original tavern map it was unclear to me how high the wall was supposed to be and whether or not you had intended to paste the stove on. 

 

Consistency is key to making well thought out maps, and from experience of seeing furnishings on walls it's simply not a good design choice, I've heard many people complain about it too. The original map was very clear how high the wall was, however it was not consistent with the rest of the map which is why it looked out of place. If the wall was made two tiles high there would not be a problem. There is a structure to good map design.

 

Edit: Upon inspecting his map further he is attempting to use angled perspective (which is natural to RPG Maker's map design). When I look at his original picture the sink, table and stove look fine although the wall is one tile short. This would be because it looks separate from the wall. When you place a ground tile on a wall it is absurdly obvious. To have an angled perspective it's easier just to parallax things and move them up half a tile onto the wall.

Edited August 12, 2015 by CVincent

[MasterApplesauc 2]

I'm really not a fan of pasting ground tiles on a wall, it takes away from the natural perspective RPG maker lends to you. The layout of the building is quite nice, however you don't need to make extra space if it will not end up being used. Areas behind a bar are often crowded anyhow. You naturally have an angled perspective and by placing tiles like stoves on a wall it simply makes things look out of place in my opinion.

 

Only objects that are relevant to the player should/need to be in their view, so for example in your earlier pictures you have the layout of an entire building but the player can not access some parts of it. This tends to tell the player there is something to be found but leaves them confused when they realize there is nothing for them. A lot of the older RPG games would only show the player the backs of rooms if they could somehow access them.

 

If you've ever played Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past on the SNES, you'll notice this room where you find a bottle. This is an example of how showing a player a room can teach them that they are able to reach that area some how.

 

 

So you're saying that it's unnecessary that, in my armory map, to have put in as much detail in the "backroom" as I did? What should I have done then? Omitted it? That seems a little extreme. I completely understand what you're trying to say though - if the player can't get to it why bother. Don't tease, like I did with the stairs in that very map.

 

Yeah, I'm not meaning to say you must always paste furnishings on the wall, but in the original tavern map it was unclear to me how high the wall was supposed to be and whether or not you had intended to paste the stove on. 

 

I think it looks good now. 

 

No I had not intended to paste the stove on it but I understand where the problem was - thank you for the input.

 

Consistency is key to making well thought out maps, and from experience of seeing furnishings on walls it's simply not a good design choice, I've heard many people complain about it too. The original map was very clear how high the wall was, however it was not consistent with the rest of the map which is why it looked out of place. If the wall was made two tiles high there would not be a problem. There is a structure to good map design.

 

Edit: Upon inspecting his map further he is attempting to use angled perspective (which is natural to RPG Maker's map design). When I look at his original picture the sink, table and stove look fine although the wall is one tile short. This would be because it looks separate from the wall. When you place a ground tile on a wall it is absurdly obvious. To have an angled perspective it's easier just to parallax things and move them up half a tile onto the wall.

 

 

Consistency is one of the big things I need to take away from this, thank you.

Can I ask what you mean by "parallaxing"? I've heard the phrase thrown around but I'm a little unfamiliar with what it actually is.

 

 

UPDATE:

I've been working on a deep underground cave system, but I'm not sure. I feel like this map is missing something.

Input is greatly appreciated:

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2015 by MasterApplesauc

[+ CVincent 234]

 

 

So you're saying that it's unnecessary that, in my armory map, to have put in as much detail in the "backroom" as I did? What should I have done then? Omitted it? That seems a little extreme. I completely understand what you're trying to say though - if the player can't get to it why bother. Don't tease, like I did with the stairs in that very map.

 

I would say that it is unnecessary, when mapping you want to carry the player's attention to different parts of the map. Using focal points to express important locations is what will prevent them from becoming distracted.. Often times adding detail that the player has no access to will just distract them.

 

It all depends on how you want to stylize your game really. Personally I'm not a fan of it since I over-analyze things, but you should do things the way you feel most comfortable.

 

 

Consistency is one of the big things I need to take away from this, thank you.

Can I ask what you mean by "parallaxing"? I've heard the phrase thrown around but I'm a little unfamiliar with what it actually is.

 

Parallax mapping is the process of using a photo editor to create layers in which your game will use as maps, as opposed to using the editor and being restricted to tiles. I have a guide for beginners here you can check out if you're interested in learning, it's a great thing to learn early on in mapping to get in the habit of.

 

It also helps with angled perspective mapping, which seems to be something you like to use in some places. My project uses a lot of angled perspective parallax mapping to give the player a sense of depth when looking at maps.

[xoferew 261]

To stress the consistency theme:  There are some games that have lots of background detail in places you can't access, and some games where, as in CVincent's Zelda example, the detail indicates to the player that the area is somehow accessible and that there is a payoff to accessing it.  So pick one style and stick with it.  Another example is bookshelves/closets/barrels/etc.  Some games you should check every bookshelf you see, because some of them will have information.  Other games, 96% of all bookshelves are decor and the ones that aren't have a sparkle effect or something to show you that you can click on it.  But you can't have a game where a player must click randomly on 50 bookshelves and only one has a readable book. 

[+ Brackev 66]

The tavern looks much better now!

 

I remember seeing tilesets that correct the spacing so that furniture is spaced properly on the grid.  After a quick search..  Where are they?  I know they are here somewhere!