Is RTP bad?

[Lord Vectra 414]

Is RTP bad? People said they wouldn't play a game that's nothing but RTP and then some said they wouldn't play game with any sign of RTP. Then some say they don't care.

 

What is RTP to you? Would you play a game with it?

[Zvart 57]

I feel like you gotta make it visually different, even if you use all RTP. Gotta do edits to make it flow better, or show you put work into the graphics even if you can't do THAT much on your own.

[Radiant Arin 412]

In a marketing sense, yes. It is very very bad, because it shows that you haven't put any effort into your game at all. People would rather judge a book by it's cover than actually play through the game to see if it's a good story or not. That's just how the commercial industry works. However, if you were making a game that wasn't catering to commercial standards, then I guess it would be okay to use RTP. Most of the RM community (emphasis on most) are willing to give new projects a try, even if they look bland and use the same tilesets over and over again.

[Arrpeegeemaker 136]

For me, RTP was what sold RPGMaker, because I had heard of it in such a backhand sort of way. I had no idea there was  huge community or even that user created content was a possibility. So RTP in a sense was everything to me. And it was RPGMaker, so I obviously was getting off on just making a game period and knew what I wanted when I bought it.

 

but oh...when I found out about user created content....that changed everything haha

 

But no, I think RTP is important, very much so, for the program itself. It makes a baseline statement to a lot of people who don't know what RPGMaker really is.I don't think using RTP for games is bad, but it would eventually be limiting, just like the limits of what you can add of your own 'user created content'. Hence the importance of working together. ^^ All in all, it's fair to say that for me, RTP was what led me to the forums and what ultimately helped me learn everything, as I learned by editing the RTP, then replacing pieces, etc. 

 

I didn't look at a lot of tutorials until much later in. I dont' regret my experience and my journey with Ace is nowhere near over, so I have to thank each facet that got me here so far. 

 

@Zvart: This doesn't mean I don't hear you, I know what you mean. A few small games or even a few big ones that are well done are fine, but eventually you're going to want to break the confines of the RTP and add more of what you want to the game in a way that RTP won't let you. But I think a good stock RTP is what helped me stay on board until I wanted more. Nowadays though I can't dream of doing just RTP lol 

[LTNGames 54]

I dont mind playing a game with the RTP in it, as long as the story is really good and I am entertained the whole way through. The RTP does not make a fantastic game its the game dev behind it, that will determine if the game is good or not. Most good game devs will not use RTP or do use it heavily modified, me personally, the moment I seen other tilesets, I ditched the rtp right away lol.

[_____ 214]

Didn't we already have a topic on this? Oh well...

 

I don't mind rtp that much. I admire custom resources for putting in the extra work, but rtp is fine. Besides, there can be really awesome rtp games and really bad custom reource games.

[Rikifive 3,411]

This is a really often asked question.

IMO less RTP, better the game - BUT it doesn't mean the game is bad, because of RTP. Custom graphics just increases the quality of the game.

At least a little bit of custom stuff really does the thing - for example "To The Moon" - it does not have super special graphics - it looks like a normal RTP game, but - besides a REALLY GREAT STORY, there is also lots of beautiful custom music, that took place in people's hearts. If that game would use IDK, 'battle 1' theme most of the time, then it'd be kinda awkward. xD

RTP isn't bad itself, but having custom stuff makes the game only better.

To be honest - If I'd go with RTP - then my game would be already finished, but... I wouldn't be proud of it - besides changing actors to ponies there wouldn't be anything special in it... That's why I'm spending sooooo much time on one thing - I'm customizing as many things as I can - even if I'm not that good at it.

 

So...

TL;DR - It's not bad, a game with only RTP is totally fine - custom stuff only increases game quality - you know ~ that way you see, that someone put much effort on it and it simply looks more professional, than just an RM game made of premade stuff and things.

[VanillaCube 14]

I am probably in the minority but, when deciding what games to play I tend to gravitate towards games with MORE RTP rather than less.

I think it has to do with the consistency of the graphics and the general good look that RTP provides.

 

There are a few parts of RTP that I don't like such as the battlers (mostly cause its so limited) and the difference between create a face and the stock faces. (seriously they couldn't make a face editor that looks to the side?)

Edited August 24, 2015 by VanillaCube

[lonequeso 1,921]

I hope not or I'm screwed   Personally, I wouldn't really care as long as the story and gameplay are solid. I'm not sure if the general public shares that opinion. In a forum like this, I'm sure most people wouldn't care. We're all designers in one fashion or another, and we're accustomed to working with it.

To Arin's point, consumers generally eat with their eyes. If the market is or gets flooded with games using RTP, people are going to get bored of it and find something different. Hopefully, the Steam marketplace is a good market for RTP games, and will stay that way 'till

I finally finish mine.

[gunsage 161]

This kind of goes back to what we were talking about as far as why some people are biased against RPG Maker games from the get-go.  A lot of designers, especially newer RPG Maker users, will rely almost exclusively on the RTP.  And why not?  There are a lot of great default tilesets that you don't have to worry about royalties or contacting the users if you decide to sell your game and whatever.  The problem is even though the tilesets are vast and have a lot of depth, all games that rely on RTP start to look painfully similar.

 

"What's this game?  Oh, it's a modern day game, but it's using a medieval tileset?  Oh I see, I'm supposed to use my imagination.  But if I wanted to do that, I'd read a book.  Pass."  Many games that use the RTP are geared toward medieval/fantasy design, so if you want to branch out and do something beside that or otherwise try to set your game apart from the others, you need to use more than the RTP.  The REAL problem is people's biases, but you're not going to move beyond that easily.

 

I still don't think it's a bad idea to use RTP (hell I'm using RTP), but you shouldn't use it exclusively.  Throw in a few newer tilesets here and there, maybe your own custom tilesets and characters.  Look at it this way.  Start watching a longplay of Dragon Age.  Now suddenly stop, then start watching a longplay of Skyrim.  Suddenly stop again, then start watching a longplay of Witcher 2.  Stop yet again, then start watching a longplay of Dragon's Dogma.  Now go to Monster Hunter.

 

Yes, there are subtle (and some not so subtle) differences, but seeing these games back to back to back, your mind has a tendency to blur the data together.  Here's another way to look at it.  When I was younger, my stepbrothers really did not care about RPGs.  At all.  To this day, they don't play that many videogames and when they do, it's usually the newest Madden or whatever.  They knew that I was a huge RPG nerd and always gave me crap for it.

 

I thought I would win them over one day by showing them Robotrek, a game that was an RPG, sure, but it was about robots.  At first, they were interested.  In fact, they didn't mind the conversations and story and all that.  They were getting super stoked when they saw me putting together the first robot, setting the color, setting up the attack patterns...all of it.  Then they saw it was turn-based combat and their minds immediately switched off and they went elsewhere.

 

To them, it was "just more turn-based garbage" and they didn't give it a second thought...despite being really interested up to that point.  Now consider the common Steam gamer.  They see a really cool banner for a game, so they check out the teaser movie and it looks pretty sweet...then suddenly RTP.  Their mind shuts off.  Even if it's a really cool idea and they would probably like it, they've seen a hundred games that look, sound, and feel exactly like this game.

 

The bottom line is RTP isn't BAD, but you should branch out and try to make your game stand out as much as possible.  It's possible that as time goes on in my development that I'll eventually go back and switch up the tilesets so everything looks better, more genuine, and less copy/paste/RTP.  Again, it's not bad to use it as a template or even to intermix with it, but I wouldn't use it exclusively, no.

[dipping dots 68]

I don't hate the idea of RTP, it's just that Ace's RTP is easily recognizable and the style isn't to my taste. I did like the RTP from XP and before.

 

A game with custom graphics is more work, but it DEFINITELY pays off, especially in marketing. Originality in how it looks adds a lot of charm and memorability to your game.

 

RTP isnt bad though. Imagine buying Ace, opening it, and having no tiles to work with. Daunting, right? Especially if you are new to RM. The RTP is essential for learning the maker.

[Tsarmina 2,612]

This reminds me of the topic that was like, how much RTP do you tolerate? 

 

Like that topic, I am generally more inclined to play games with less RTP and more custom material (bonus points if the custom material is 1) good and, especially, 2) made by yourself). As an artist, this should make sense. As a general population, I'd also say most people would agree. Since everyone has access to the RTP, it isn't "special" anymore. People generally favour more exclusive stuff, which is why the rich are so regarded as "special"--because they have amounts of money that other people don't have, they can buy things that are special, they can eat things that are special, they can attend things that are special, etc. When something becomes too common, like the RTP, it isn't special and usually becomes less desirable. (I'm not saying you can't love RTP with your heart and soul, I'm just saying most people would lean towards less RTP. ) 

 

However, the RTP isn't bad. In fact, it's actually really good quality if you think about it, and you can use the RTP in magnificent ways (ever seen tile clumps/edits? Or one of Indrah's games? They're fantastic.) If you can hook me with your story, gameplay, etc., I don't care if your game is totally vanilla mapping. The only caveat is, it'll be rather hard to grab my attention in the first place if your game isn't pretty enough to catch my eye.

[gunsage 161]

The tricky part I always have with any game idea is mapping.  As a result, I have a tendency to grab all these resources and maybe use...3 of them.  The issue there is I spend too much time gathering and not enough time doing.  The difference now is I'm working through with just RTP (and some minor DLC and Game Character Hub) to get it all "on paper," so to speak, and I'm thinking I'll go back later to refine it.  The thing is even if I don't go back, it still looks and feels pretty spiffy as is, just kinda basic.

 

I just know how most people act when you use RTP, which is why I have misgivings about it even though I think the basics are fine personally.

[Jon (NPC) 19]

I think that RTP is okay for a final product: but even if you don't have the skills to make 100% original content for your game, you should at least edit a sprite or something. I wouldn't buy a product that is 100% RTP, or even 80%. Commercial games need to go the next step.

 

Parallax mapping with the RTP doesn't count as RTP in m book, and is custom art in it's own right.

[+ Chaosian 617]

RTP as a style is actually quite nice, but it also holds a pretty powerful stigma that is a symptom of a chronic problem for some games and their developers.

If a game looks the part of a game that was lazily put together, then it's not a far jump for me to assume that it'll play the part of a game that was lazily put together, and if the developer didn't care then why should I?

It doesn't help that RTP limits you to fantasy, and fantasy is becoming increasingly stagnant, and boring.

[Rikifive 3,411]

Yup, if a game is made only with RTP stuff, then it's not that 'original' and people will forget about your game quickly.

Imagine what would happen if every single RPG would like for example a FF games. The same system, the same windows, the same characters, the same graphics, but only different story. That's how more or less RTP games look like for other people (that not uses RM)

Some people love RTP, some don't, but in general if your game will be special, then it'll be more memorable.

For example - some people wants to recreate battle system from FF, some people wants to recreate HUD etc. from some other game etc. etc.

There will not be people, that would like to recreate something from 100% RTP game, because... what they could do? Recreate Eric and put him in their game? After beating such a game there'll be "Oh nice story, okay next game! *opens up folder with tons of RM games*".

Mm... actually it's hard to explain the thing using text...

Well... Maybe that way:

There are tons of RTP RM games - if you make your game special, then it'll be really outstanding and people will be impressed and you'll get questions like "Woah! How did you do that!" "That's awesome! Was that even possible to make all of this in RM?" ... Let's say RTP is classic - you can stay in that theme along many other games, or make something amazing, that'll catch attention of players.

 

Q: RTP is bad?

A: No, it's not bad, the stuff in here is good and of course you can use it.

 

Q: Why some people hate RTP?

A: Because they probably saw 99999 exactly the same games and another one does not make any difference. Also, making a game with only RTP is simply easier, as it's just kinda making a game out of puzzles. When people sees a game like this, they're thinking "LOL another RM game, well it's exactly like 9999 other games I saw". I'm not saying, that I'm thinking like this, but don't forget, that most of people are judging a book by its cover these days.

 

Q: So, how much RTP can I use then?

A: You can make a game using only RTP stuff, why not. BUT if you want to make an outstanding more professional and stuff game, then you should consider customizing some things, besides changing face from Eric to IDK Ralph.

 

Q: But I can't do that stuff, I'm just good at story telling... =(

A: If your game is more focused on story without RPG theme (no fights etc.), then graphics and system isn't that necessary. As long as the story will be great, it can handle the whole game. The only thing to consider would be adding custom music to create proper ambiance. If your story is touching and stuff, then it would be awkward to hear 'battle 1' theme in background...

 

Q: Will people avoid my game, because it has RTP in it?

A: Some people love RTP (especially people, who uses that engine or simply loves JRPGs), but be aware, that there are many people, that will hate it (especially people, who don't use that engine ~random steam users etc.) ~ I remember, when someone (on this community) said once, that he/she got comment like this on steam "Downloaded that, played, enjoyed, realized it was made in RPG Maker - uninstalled that. That was not worth downloading this" < actually, it's not my random thought - it's based on true story. I saw that when I was new here ad somebody was asking about similar question (If I remember correctly). But still, don't worry, there will be many people who will love your game - including myself.

 

Q: So... basically the less RTP, the better the game?

A: It depends on game type, and of course people likes different things. but it's kinda obvious, that if you can make something original, then do it - it will make your game only better - customize and create wonderful gameplay, so people would be jealous! >=]

 

Q: What are you doing? It's not a tutorial!

A: I have no idea what happened, it came out of nowhere.

 

Q: I was just joking, it's a really cool tutorial! I guess... Anyway, can I like your post?

A: Of course you can.

 

TL;DR version PRO EDITION: RTP isn't bad, but custom stuff is always welcome. =]

Edited August 25, 2015 by Rikifive

[Tharis 212]

RTP isn't bad, in the sense that the graphics are ugly or are hard to work with. But remember you are talking to a group of individuals who have been looking at RTP (and even more importantly, beautifully made custom) RPG maker graphics for a lot of years. So the reaction you are going to get from this crowd is "been there seen that". So try branching out and asking people not on the forums or within the RPG maker community what they think.

 

In the end though, you have to make your game's story, gameplay, or characters compelling enough to make people want to play it. I've seen RTP used brilliantly and I've seen it fumbled horribly so it's going to boil down to how confident are you that your game is good enough to play. If it's a great game those people who don't care about RTP will spread the word on how good it is. If it's not anything special no one will take a second look. So gauge where you think you are on that scale and proceed.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Tharis

[gunsage 161]

Let's put it this way.  Thomas Was Alone is a story about blocks that jump around and solve puzzles.  It's deliberately minimalist and tells an interesting story.  Games like that exist, sure.  Now imagine if everyone, all at the same time, envisioned they could do the same thing.  With the same blocks.  And the same backgrounds.  Music.  Sounds.  All of it.  Sure, the maps might be different as would the characters, their names, the story, etc., but it would literally look and sound 100% the same.

 

Once you see that enough times, it doesn't matter what story you have to tell, the gamer will be thinking of every game up to this point that has looked and acted the same and possibly not even be able to focus on your story for reasons that, admittedly, shouldn't matter, but do because they've seen it already.  Think about how many GTA clones came out after the massive success of GTA3.  And sure, some of them were actually fun (The Godfather, Scarface, etc.), but a lot of them were dumb and unnecessary (Narc, True Crime NY, The Getaway, etc.).

 

Think of it like that.  The trend has already started.  How will you make your game stand out among so many that choose to use just RTP?

[Kayzee 4,032]

RTP isn't bad, it's a tool. Tools are not good or bad, it's all in how they are used. I actually think the RTP is pretty quirkily charming sometimes... but then again I kinda like to poke fun at it.

[Tsukihime 1,489]

There's no difference between using RTP vs using the countless other resources that are offered freely on the internet by various resource creators: you're using something that you did not make, and someone else is probably using the same thing.

 

But of course, you don't see many people saying "ugh, that artist's sprites again" or "ugh, that composer's tracks again"

Edited August 25, 2015 by Tsukihime

[Whiona 310]

I don't mind if people use only RTP, but I'm more likely to play a game with at least some custom resources. In particular, I look at the character art - if a game has nice-looking original character portraits, I'll be ten times more interested in it. Characters can make or break a game for me, and it's harder to get invested in them if you're using the stock RPG Maker face graphics that show up in every other game. Custom music is also a big plus, since I find some of the RTP music to be a bit cheesy. (Not that I'm saying it's bad by any means; it's just not to my personal taste. Go ahead and use it if you like it!) It's nice to see non-RTP tiles, too, but I don't care nearly as much about the tilesets as I do about the character artwork.

[Jon (NPC) 19]

@Tsukihime: Kevin Macloed?

Edited August 27, 2015 by NPC

[HumanNinja 144]

I like the style of the RTP. I'm not turned off by the visual RTP at all but, I do dislike hearing the musical RTP; not because it's bad but just because I've heard it so much that it doesn't evoke any emotion when I hear it. Music really sets the mood so I like to hear original works not included in the RTP. Also, while I do like the visual RTP, I prefer to tweak it a bit because I dislike how blocky it all looks. So I appreciate when people go the extra mile to make some edits.

 

Like others have mentioned, if you plan on creating a game for profit then using a bunch of RTP is probably not a great idea but I don't think it would kill the game completely. The reason I believe this is because we've all seen the RTP characters so many times that it can sometimes take away from a story because they lack uniqueness (I think that's a word...).

 

I really like seeing games where people have edited the RTP to make it fit their vision.

[dipping dots 68]

RTP as a style is actually quite nice, but it also holds a pretty powerful stigma that is a symptom of a chronic problem for some games and their developers.

 

If a game looks the part of a game that was lazily put together, then it's not a far jump for me to assume that it'll play the part of a game that was lazily put together, and if the developer didn't care then why should I?

It doesn't help that RTP limits you to fantasy, and fantasy is becoming increasingly stagnant, and boring.

My thoughts exactly. The RTP for Ace specifically is limiting. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a barrel or random box in a modern day classroom map. That's also something to do with the mapper, but you get my drift.

 

In theory, when I see a game made with Ace' s RTP I initially don't feel up to playing it. Once the game's up and running though, it gets easier to ignore it, depending on the ingenuity of the developer. With Seven Mysteries, I didn't think about how it was mostly RTP. I just played it. So it's not always a sore thumb.

[Rikifive 3,411]

Let's put it this way.  Thomas Was Alone is a story about blocks that jump around and solve puzzles.  It's deliberately minimalist and tells an interesting story.  Games like that exist, sure.  Now imagine if everyone, all at the same time, envisioned they could do the same thing.  With the same blocks.  And the same backgrounds.  Music.  Sounds.  All of it.  Sure, the maps might be different as would the characters, their names, the story, etc., but it would literally look and sound 100% the same.

 

Once you see that enough times, it doesn't matter what story you have to tell, the gamer will be thinking of every game up to this point that has looked and acted the same and possibly not even be able to focus on your story for reasons that, admittedly, shouldn't matter, but do because they've seen it already.  Think about how many GTA clones came out after the massive success of GTA3.  And sure, some of them were actually fun (The Godfather, Scarface, etc.), but a lot of them were dumb and unnecessary (Narc, True Crime NY, The Getaway, etc.).

 

Think of it like that.  The trend has already started.  How will you make your game stand out among so many that choose to use just RTP?

That's a good point - making a game with only RTP looks more like a 'mappack' or 'custom story' rather than 'game'. It's really not that RTP is bad (it's actually very good), but it's the easy way of making a game. A normal proper game requires lots of people, it is obvious, that the quality of the game will be lower when working alone (using the same stuff as in 9999 other games). Imagine how GTA and many other games would look like, when it'd be created by one person, using some premade stuff, where many other people could make another GTA-like games easily, with the same graphics and stuff. Some people will enjoy, some don't. There's no answer for that question as it really depends on what people like.

 

There's no difference between using RTP vs using the countless other resources that are offered freely on the internet by various resource creators: you're using something that you did not make, and someone else is probably using the same thing.

 

But of course, you don't see many people saying "ugh, that artist's sprites again" or "ugh, that composer's tracks again"

That's also a good point - using other resources is not any better than RTP - well it's kinda better and stuff, but it's still not made by you and you can see that stuff in 9999 other games.

 

That's right, but when I'd see Eric, then I'd laugh. xD Not because of game, but because of him. xD I'm sure, that I'd not be able to focus on a dramatic story, when Eric would be the main character. xD He's the best thing in RTP. ^^