Long Series?

[Lord Vectra 414]

Some people think that a series can be too long but how? I mean, what makes a long sequel boring or whatnot. What is "too long." Is it after 4 games? 6? 10? Is there a rule about how long a sequel can be?

 

If someone wants 100 games in their sequel, how come it's a bad idea to that?

Edited September 16, 2015 by Vectra

[+ Takeo212 1,079]

I depends on story.

If you make a series about a world, with different stories, thats fine.

If you make 100 games and there all still following the same story, then it might start to become boring.

 

 

It's fine to have a long series of games, just as long as they have variety within them

[Lord Vectra 414]

I depends on story.

If you make a series about a world, with different stories, thats fine.

If you make 100 games and there all still following the same story, then it might start to become boring.

 

 

It's fine to have a long series of games, just as long as they have variety within them

So as long as they have different stories, it should be fine?

 

Good. I'm asking for my sequel, World of Chaos. Some think it won't work but imma prove them wrong.

[+ Takeo212 1,079]

It's more trying to keep the attention of the player.

 

It's overused, but think of teh Final Fantasy series.

Each game has it's own story, but it part of a series. It contains unique aspects that still go onto each game.

 

However, look at the Final Fantasy 7 series.

It has a main game, as well as a prequel and sequel to it's series. That also has a huge fan base and a remake on the way, so it can be done.

 

However, looking at FF13, 13-2 and 13-Lightning Returns, that's how not to go.

 

If you stories gripping enough, and the series aren't all the exact same, then i'm sure you can get away with doing it

[+ Chaosian 617]

There is no real magic number. I say it depends on the creative team A LOT more than games themselves. Can the team keep the story going, can they find new ways to innovate, mix it up, or modify the forumla? Some series can innovate, or get arguably better as time goes on, some series, simply can't. For long term story creation, you probably want to look more at comics than games, because game series often live and die on individual entries - If game 2 isn't successful, then game 3 isn't being made. Comics can have whole 13-month arcs completely flop and still have it's book and characters go on.

 

Personally, I'm most fond of series that keep relevant not with sequels, but different entries in the same Universe. No Fallout game has required reading of previous entries, they're all completely self-contained entries that all contribute to one larger world picture. The Half Life Universe is also quite a bit like this. Half Life 1 and it's expansions all focus on the same event in it's history, and yet all have completely different casts save for maybe one thread that ties them all together.

[Mysticphoenix 8]

If people still care about it, then it's worth doing a sequel. 

Edited September 17, 2015 by Mysticphoenix

[Kayzee 4,032]

I would say there is no real limit, but I don't think there is any real point in planning out a super long series. Just do it an episode at a time until you feel it is done and don't worry about how long it ends up being in that case. There is no reason to say "I am gonna do a hundred episode series" without really knowing how long you can sustain it.

[Lord Vectra 414]

I would say there is no real limit, but I don't think there is any real point in planning out a super long series. Just do it an episode at a time until you feel it is done and don't worry about how long it ends up being in that case. There is no reason to say "I am gonna do a hundred episode series" without really knowing how long you can sustain it.

If the game designer plans beforehand, then they have a reason. Not all series can go into episodes. If it's 100 games long, well, it's 100 games long.

 

Let's say they all take... 2 months to beat. Combine them all, that'll be 200 months. That's more general as every game is different but still.

 

If they have 100 games, I don't see why they can't have 100 games. Just because it's rarely done doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

 

See what I mean?

[Priscillum 1]

However, look at the Final Fantasy 7 series.

It has a main game, as well as a prequel and sequel to it's series. That also has a huge fan base and a remake on the way, so it can be done.

 

However, looking at FF13, 13-2 and 13-Lightning Returns, that's how not to go.

So...only makes sequels to games that pompous jackasses like you like?

Edited September 17, 2015 by Eris Lillium

[kaz 1,338]

 

However, look at the Final Fantasy 7 series.

It has a main game, as well as a prequel and sequel to it's series. That also has a huge fan base and a remake on the way, so it can be done.

 

However, looking at FF13, 13-2 and 13-Lightning Returns, that's how not to go.

So...only makes sequels to games that pompous jackasses like you like?

 

Do not call people names- no need for that.

[lonequeso 1,921]

It has already been said a few times, it is all about keeping the audience interested. When you release your first game, get as much feedback from players as possible. Figure out what they liked, didn't like, and what they feel could have been done better. This will give you a good idea of what needs to improved on and what stays the same. Also, as you continue your series, you're skills as a developer will improve. If everyone seems to love your battle system, you know you can continue with it. You may want to add a couple new wrinkles here and there to make each game more unique and keep interest, but there's no need to completely overhaul the system. If people feel the game was too easy or too hard, not enough quests you can improve upon those things s the series progresses. You should make it a goal to find some way to improve the quality of each new game in the series. That will keep you're fan base interested and wanting to continue as well as get others to play, too.

 

Your skills are as a developer are going to improve as you progress as well. That by itself will help you make better and better games. As far as story goes, you want to vary the story lines. If every story and protagonist just feels like a "cut and paste" of the original, you;re story will become stagnant. Vary up the character's personalities, motives, and their classes and skills to make each game feel fresh. Also, make the worlds the player progresses through as unique as possible, too. That part can be hard especially if the stories take place in a lot of similar locations. In that case, you can always change up who and what the player encounters in those areas.

 

I don't know if there's a magic number even within industry. How long a series can go on really depends on how popular it is. Keep your fans happy, and you can make a series as long as you want it to be.

[Guyver 65]

Long running series tend to be boring after so many games. Look at the final fantasy games, they're all related by certain things like shared names of summons/weapons/locations etc so it gives you a sense of universe building. They give the player something to relate to from the other games, while for the most part keeping all of the games relatively seperate from one another. If Final Fantasy 12 didn't have similar terms from other games in it, you would have almost never thought it was a final fantasy game. The tales games do a good job of this too, as well as the Disgaea series.

 

TL;DR I would rather play a series of games, not sequels,  that exist in the same universe, or have strong ties to other games in the franchise without being directly affected by them.

[Kayzee 4,032]

I donno, I talked about the Ultima series before on my blog and I think that's a really good example of a long series with a continuous storyline that probably could have continued to innovate and do new interesting things if EA hadn't come along and ruined everything like EA always does, but I guess we will never know.

 

The Ultima series was a bit different to most RPG series though I think. There aren't really a lot of long game series that really iterate on the same world and universe in quite the same way as the Ultima series does. The Zelda series for example, although most games take place in the same setting, almost always completely redesign the world in each game. The Elder Scrolls comes kinda close, but each game (save the first) takes place it it's own little walled off section of the game's universe and involves it's own cast of characters.

 

Ultima on the other hand, with a few notable exceptions (2, 7 part 2, and 8, as well as the spin off games, and even those often had to do with the same characters or locations), mostly had more or less the same world map and had a lot of the same cast return over and over. It didn't get repetitive or stale though, because each game evolved the technology it used and added to the history and lore of the series as a whole. Time would pass, things would change, new problems and challenges would come up (even i the series did resort to comic book style retconning at times to make it all fit).

 

So yeah, I think a long game series following a more or less continuous plot can work.

[Priscillum 1]

I donno, I talked about the Ultima series before on my blog and I think that's a really good example of a long series with a continuous storyline that probably could have continued to innovate and do new interesting things if EA hadn't come along and ruined everything like EA always does, but I guess we will never know.

 

How does it feel knowing that everyone else in the world laughs at you circlejerking EA-whining idiots?

[Kayzee 4,032]

Really? First I heard if that. Last I saw bashing EA was the fashionable thing to do, at least before Konami came along and did everything it could to piss everyone off. I have been hating on EA since at least the 90s and no one ever reacted badly. Attack Sony or Nintendo or even Microsoft sure... but EA? I guess I was wrong! I am sure that's why EA was voted worst company in America, because everyone loves them and doesn't complain at all when they ruin games and force micro-transactions and DLC down everyone's throat right? I am sure I just misunderstood the constant jokes about how bad EA is that I see everywhere on the internet.

 

Apparently "everyone" is now a rabid EA fan who are in no way insecure about the fact that their faith in the company has been shaken again and again by insult after insult thrown at them by everyone they see, and in no way need to make themselves seem like the cool kids by laughing at us people who are complaining about things that are in no way valid and true. Gosh... what have I done with my life? So what if EA gobbles up game developers and sucks them for every shred of money they can and discards them when they can't make ends meat? So what if they ruin games by their meddling time and time again? Nothing is EA's fault for being a greedy out of touch corporation run by people who don't understand or care about games as an art form?

 

Thank you for showing me the caliber of person who will defend EA. I am totally convinced I am wrong because you say everyone will laugh at me.

 

(... What? Yeah that was a rather stupid thing to go on about, but I can't resist my trollish impulses sometimes. Kekekeke...)

Edited September 18, 2015 by KilloZapit

[Priscillum 1]

A handful of morons got goaded by a sensationalist rag into voting a video game developer as worse than companies that literally destroy people's lives. And you have all of this rhetoric pulled out of your ass to prove EA is terrible, rather than any actual arguments or anything.

 

That's the caliber of you obsessive psychotic little crybabies who wish people who make games for people who aren't you wouldn't be allowed to even exist.

 

And let's not forget, most of the people who spammed votes for EA on that poll were the same people who sent death threats to a developer because a game didn't have a perfectly-happy ending.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Priscillum

[lonequeso 1,921]

Play nice, children. Clearly Priscillum is a fan of EA, and Killo isn't. Got it. Moving on. A super long series can be tough to pull off. If you have a 20 game series and every game takes 20 hours on average to complete, you''re asking your audience to devote at least 400 hours of time for the entire series. Like I said before, make sure every entry into the series is an improvement on the last, and make sure all your characters/class are varied. I know I just rehashed what I said before, but I'd rather get the thread back on topic than watch a flame war break out.

[Tsarmina 2,612]

 

I donno, I talked about the Ultima series before on my blog and I think that's a really good example of a long series with a continuous storyline that probably could have continued to innovate and do new interesting things if EA hadn't come along and ruined everything like EA always does, but I guess we will never know.

 

How does it feel knowing that everyone else in the world laughs at you circlejerking EA-whining idiots?

 

 

A handful of morons got goaded by a sensationalist rag into voting a video game developer as worse than companies that literally destroy people's lives. And you have all of this rhetoric pulled out of your ass to prove EA is terrible, rather than any actual arguments or anything.

 

That's the caliber of you obsessive psychotic little crybabies who wish people who make games for people who aren't you wouldn't be allowed to even exist.

 

And let's not forget, most of the people who spammed votes for EA on that poll were the same people who sent death threats to a developer because a game didn't have a perfectly-happy ending.

Priscillum, you were already verbally warned to not use foul language or insult other people. This type of response is highly unnecessary and offensive.

[+ Takeo212 1,079]

 

However, look at the Final Fantasy 7 series.

It has a main game, as well as a prequel and sequel to it's series. That also has a huge fan base and a remake on the way, so it can be done.

 

However, looking at FF13, 13-2 and 13-Lightning Returns, that's how not to go.

So...only makes sequels to games that pompous jackasses like you like?

 

 

I was giving an example, not a fact. 

It's a successful title - wether you like it or not.

 

Either way, Vectra, you seem to have a game plan for your series, so maybe we can give better feedback once you have one or two titles released

Something to go by.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Takeo212

[Point08 219]

One thing I haven't really seen anyone mention, is this: if you continue a series long enough, it becomes more and more likely that you will "get it wrong." What I mean by that is, to keep things from getting boring and/or simply outdated, as you go on you will make changes, a character will die, new ones will be added, the battle system will be tweaked, etc. Eventually, it is likely that with one of these changes, you will misjudge your audience's expectations, and overall, people will be disappointed. Now, if the series continues, the very next game may be a masterpiece and win back any fans you lost. Or it might end up going even further astray.

 

Also, keep in mind, the longer and more beloved a series becomes, then if/when you do "get it wrong," the more viciously people will attack you in response. As long as you are prepared for and can handle that possibility, I'd say go for it if you think you can make a long series of games. On the other hand, if you don't respond well to personal attacks (and let's be honest, people are jerks and would attack your personal character over a game), then I'd say, save yourself the stress and stick to single games. That is, of course, just my (never-finished-a-game-amateur-developer) opinion.

[xoferew 261]

I agree with Point.  People easily get upset and act entitled when something they like changes. 

 

But I think there is also something sad about trying to constantly tweak one's own artistic vision to please the most people.  I think a lot of us on this forum, while we may hope to make some $$ from our game, we're basically doing it because we love the creative process and want an audience for the stories we want to tell.  It's one thing to improve our games based on feedback like "The way I play, that boss battle was too easy," or "Fix this incorrect graphic" or "I would have liked clearer instructions about the crafting system mechanics."  It's another thing to feel like we need to decide the characters, story, battle system, graphical style, etc. by vote.  Make a game YOU like and some people will like to play it and others will have no interest.  We are lucky in that we're not professionals laboring with supervisors looking over our shoulder demanding we create a game that is optimized for making the most money.

Edited September 20, 2015 by xoferew

[lonequeso 1,921]

If you're making a series even if it's a really really long series, you should plan the entire story out. You should already know the endgame and have at least have an idea of how to get there. It'll make the story a lot more organic. Already know who's going to die and why. Who's going to make the dramatic turn from goo to evil or vice versa. How big the world is. All the cities/dungeons/etc.

The more you have planned in advance, the less you'll find yourself scrambling to come up reasons to keep the story going or which character to kill or if you need to add another on altogether. Everything will flow a lot more naturally. If anything about the story or game play is ill-received, improve, tweek, and adjust accordingly as you go.

[Point08 219]

lonequeso makes a good point, which brings up another one: don't make a long series, just because. If you try, you'll almost definitely find you'll run out of (good) ideas. Even if you you're doing it because you think you have an epic story, if you don't plan it all out, you might come to realize that the beginning and the end are amazing, but the middle is kind of boring, which in a series, means several episodes or whatever you call them, of boring gameplay or story.

 

xoferew also makes a good point though. I've been writing my feedback based on the impression the series would be for profit games (or at least games that were going to be sold, even if for a minimal amount). If you making a series of games, just because you want to, then who cares about any of this?! If you want to do it, do it!

[+ Takeo212 1,079]

To my knowledge, Vectra has his game entirely planned out which might mean the long series idea might work.

My only concern for that though is how long is the series?

I'm interested in all these different mechanics though, You have my interest Vectra.

[lonequeso 1,921]

 

My only concern for that though is how long is the series?

 

 

I think we should start a betting pool. Whoever guesses the right number wins the pot