Maybe a 3D import Option

[EarthKat2035 9]

I'm not sure about everyone else but I myself would love to see someone write a script for .obj format imports. Java scripting should allow for that anyways cuz Minecraft is in Java. I believe that's how it goes? So in the Rpg Maker MV folders just have a 3d section to just drag and drop your models.

 

There is large growing communities of 3d artists. You can even download the latest version of Blender for free at their website. Blender.org and they even have a large group at Facebook. I'm even a 3d modeller. For those who know nothing of how to make 3d models of humans nor monsters, can use programs online for premade models. I know that there are already 3d programs for videogames like Platinum Arts Sandbox but Rpg Maker programs have that simple interface for adjusting character stats and eventing. Rpg Maker 3 had these features but didn't have the imports.  

 

Enterbrain may not do this but someone might come along one day.

 

Wouldn't everyone like to have a 3d styled Rpg Maker? What is your all's thoughts?

 

Thanks

Edited September 21, 2015 by EarthKat34

[Illsnidig 16]

Well, I am far from an expert but I would not get my hopes up. Minecraft is written in Java but RPG maker MV will use Java...script (it's not the same).
But then again, I am no expert so maybe it is possible in theory but it sounds like a lot of work. When it comes to 3D the only thing I'd like to see myself is a good plugin for 3D maze dungeons. It would be cool to be able to make something like Etrian Odyssey although I realize that it would probably be too big of a project for me.

[+ Chaosian 617]

I'm gonna be really harsh and call this out for what it is: an absolute pipe dream. Want 3D? Use UE4, Unity, or maybe Source 2 when it shows up. Want fake 3D? One of those aforementioned, or Game Maker. There's options out there, and this engine will likely never leave its niche to be one of those.

 

Enterbrain has demonstrated that as of late they have no interest in really making substantial effort for engine iterations, any chance for 3D is already out the window before the conversation starts. So it'll be up to scripters, and nobody - nobody in the world is going to want to make mesh processing as written in Javascript while working in the confines of RPG Maker, especially when that could easily lead to questions of collision, physics, terrain, particles - and the likes. Keep in mind this is the equivalent to hard-core engine programming work, something it takes a team of paid professionals months to perform, in better engine languages like C# and C++. And let's not forget about a little thing called optimization. RPG Maker VXAce has problems with 10 32x32 pixel sprites moving at the same time on the screen, it'd have a stroke if someone even mentions the word "shader".

 

And even then, would anyone ever really want 3D? I mean honestly, people have trouble making their 2D sprite games with half the engine and assets already made for them. I can't envision anyone saying: "Yeah, my sprite game was too much effort to make, but my game with 3D models and textures will go well!"

[hmint 6]

for me, i loved those rpg's with simple 3d environments or a mix of 2d and 3d, like:

 

i don't think they would integrate it in mv. integrating 3d models wouldn't be a problem, but handling them in the editor would.

it would be awsome if you could actually see the models in the editor.

back to reality, it doesn't look like it in the teaser at all.

btw java is not javascript, but both do support 3d either way.

[Tsukihime 1,489]

integrating 3d models wouldn't be a problem, but handling them in the editor would.

I'm not sure what you mean by "integrating 3D models wouldn't be a problem", when you agree that you can't handle them in the editor.

 

Most people developing games work through the editor.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Tsukihime

[+ TBWCS 953]

Oh boy, here we go again. 

 

Java scripting should allow for that anyways cuz Minecraft is in Java.

 

JavaScript is different from Java. The way how objects are imported in Java even requires a library to do so. Look at JMonkey or LibGDX, they are engines or game libs that needs to be there with the vanilla java in order to make the models work, and the objects functions and rigging options are not even available, you'd have to rig them first, add an XML about it and let Java read it from the engine. If that is the case with them, you'd have to make sure JavaScript and MV has to have a similar work with it. 

 

So in the Rpg Maker MV folders just have a 3d section to just drag and drop your models.

 

Easy to say but hard to make it work. I am not saying Enterbrain won't do anything that has to do with 3d related, but for RMMV it would be just not possible by default.

 

If you really want to make 3d games, there's Unreal Engine 4 or Unity 5 out there you can use.

[hmint 6]

I'm not sure what you mean by "integrating 3D models wouldn't be a problem", when you agree that you can't handle them in the editor.

 

calling a model through (custom) script

[Tsukihime 1,489]

calling a model through (custom) script

I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean the same as throwing a 2D picture on the screen?

 

Please elaborate on how you would like 3D to be integrated, as I'm sure it's a more complex than you make it seem.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Tsukihime

[Szyu 52]

Ok just for reference:

I worked with XNA (C#) for years even if its outdated... XNA is a high level framework over an DirectX Wrapper. And event with such a high level framework, working with 3d models was a pain in the ass... Just to instantiate a 3d model, you would have hell of code, then handling each vertex, using shaders and much more must be considered.

I think to show one 3d model correctly, you would probably have to read half a book to understand what is going on.

 

So if you are hoping MV will allow 3d models via javascript, I think rpg maker would only be able to display 1 model at max because of performance issues...

RPG Maker just is not constructed for 3d (as stated by Chaosian).

Edited September 22, 2015 by Szyu

[hmint 6]

 

I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean the same as throwing a 2D picture on the screen?

 

Please elaborate on how you would like 3D to be integrated, as I'm sure it's a more complex than you make it seem.

you could be right. we don't even know yet if we can use frameworks like three.js. but that is where i saw the possibility i was mentioning.

well tey promise "the ability to control all parts of the game" is given, "no hidden classes" , also the plugin manager looks much like framework support, as does the overall message in the javascript section

 

if possible, it wouldn't be an intuitive option, but with a little scripting knowledge and database analysis you could e.g. write a script (in a few lines hopefully) that loads a model with a material and places it at a defined position on the map - best would be the event position it is called from.

 

now IF there is also the possibility to modify the internal editor window class, it COULD even be possible to ..display 3d models ..update their parameters (like position) ..add a 3d camera/view/angle ..much would have to be rewritten, it would be a bigger project, but nothing to think of as impossible.

 

i am talking about customization. also it's theory. at last we will only see what is really possible when MV is out. don't dream of it yet, wait for the pro's to come up with sth.

Edited September 22, 2015 by hminth

[Dilvish 7]

Better support for 2.5D terrain would be nice.

Edited September 23, 2015 by posfan12

[EarthKat2035 9]

So in the Rpg Maker MV folders just have a 3d section to just drag and drop your models.

 

Easy to say but hard to make it work. I am not saying Enterbrain won't do anything that has to do with 3d related, but for RMMV it would be just not possible by default.

 

If you really want to make 3d games, there's Unreal Engine 4 or Unity 5 out there you can use.

 

Ever played the Elder Scrolls series and modded with them? In Program Files x86 where the game is installed, you have the "Data" folder. You can add your mods to that folder and click the check mark box in the game before you play to see your mod appear. Considering that you can use a program like Nifskope to hook up your 3d model to save as a .nif file, then hook up to the Creation Kit that allows for custom models. The Elder Scrolls operates under a completely different language system. That I get.

 

Now you're doing the same but with RMMV and a different scripting system. There's different methods of programs that you can save your models with.

Then copy the format you saved and paste it into the appropriate folders. 

 

Like Illsnidig said it would be good for 3d maze dungeons as he/she mentioned a "plugin" script. A new module would have to be created. 

 

Szyu: It would have to depend on who's all involved and experienced actually. I see you there when it comes to a pain in the butt to make these things but keep in mind on who would make such a modular plugin. I still see potential here though.

 

I disagree with you Chaosian, considering the fact there are huge modelling communities out there who wouldn't mind making models for Rpg Maker. Trust me, it would't be tossed out the window that easily. Ever heard of CgSociety? Blender forums? AutoDesk forums? I myself do some models. You said Enterbrain made it quite clear that there won't be any 3d Rpg Makers in the future. IMO they're not reaching out to everyone's needs. I myself love 2d sprites but it gets very tiresome after some point. I'm sure it does for the younger developers after they've been doing Rpg Maker for some time. I'm not saying they're gonna completely lose interest, but it has to be fair for us to have an interactive world and see the skies and the lands around us instead of constantly staring downwards in "top-down" mode all the time.

 

Anways, if MV does allow for such plugins then a huge following will come. If not, then no big deal.

[+ TBWCS 953]

@EarthKat34 - I never played any WRPG at all. I am a full JRPG and Japanese games only player. But I have experience in modding games. That was what I was doing before meeting RPG Maker (which was XP). And again let me tell you that it isn't just Data-Copy-Save function that you can add in the maker by default. I like to iterate this again: since 3D models are different from a simple 2D image, you'll need to program everything just for the model to show on the game space. 

 

Here's the thing, you mentioned about script plugin for this. With it, yes you can do it. But what comes next after you import it? Script to make it work. A 3D model would cause a lot of programming to be built in order to make the model work in the 3d space...i.e. Vector3f (which I use in Java), Geometry, BoxCollider, etc. Do you think Enterbrain would go through all that just to make 3D availability work for them? Nope. Pretty sure if they do that, it would make the engine a lot complicated and expensive, which is counter intuitive to what they want to make, which is simple and easy to use.

 

Hell, even Battle Realms map and game modder needed a third party software just for creating and importing, and still, there's a lot of scripting involved inside the game data that needs it to work.

 

 You said Enterbrain made it quite clear that there won't be any 3d Rpg Makers in the future. IMO they're not reaching out to everyone's needs.

 

That is because Enterbrain's RPG Maker was intended for hobbyists, not for some hot shot game developing engine. It's intended to a niche market on making their own games with it.

 

Like I pointed out, if you want to make 3D games, there's Unity, Unreal, Neo-Axis Engine, Blender Game Engine, etc. that you can use. If you want to make a 2D RPG, there's RPG Maker. If you want to use Unity with ease for RPG, there's UniRPG.

[EarthKat2035 9]

@EarthKat34 - I never played any WRPG at all. I am a full JRPG and Japanese games only player. But I have experience in modding games. That was what I was doing before meeting RPG Maker (which was XP). And again let me tell you that it isn't just Data-Copy-Save function that you can add in the maker by default. I like to iterate this again: since 3D models are different from a simple 2D image, you'll need to program everything just for the model to show on the game space. 

 

Here's the thing, you mentioned about script plugin for this. With it, yes you can do it. But what comes next after you import it? Script to make it work. A 3D model would cause a lot of programming to be built in order to make the model work in the 3d space...i.e. Vector3f (which I use in Java), Geometry, BoxCollider, etc. Do you think Enterbrain would go through all that just to make 3D availability work for them? Nope. Pretty sure if they do that, it would make the engine a lot complicated and expensive, which is counter intuitive to what they want to make, which is simple and easy to use.

 

Hell, even Battle Realms map and game modder needed a third party software just for creating and importing, and still, there's a lot of scripting involved inside the game data that needs it to work.

 

 You said Enterbrain made it quite clear that there won't be any 3d Rpg Makers in the future. IMO they're not reaching out to everyone's needs.

 

That is because Enterbrain's RPG Maker was intended for hobbyists, not for some hot shot game developing engine. It's intended to a niche market on making their own games with it.

 

Like I pointed out, if you want to make 3D games, there's Unity, Unreal, Neo-Axis Engine, Blender Game Engine, etc. that you can use. If you want to make a 2D RPG, there's RPG Maker. If you want to use Unity with ease for RPG, there's UniRPG.

 

 

I know this.

 

Enterbrain doesn't have to do a plugin. Since this is going to be in Java, there's bound to be someone out there that has an ambition to give MV an enchancement. I wouldn't doubt the ambitious potential people to do so. So, I encourage us all not to assume what's going to happen. Only time will tell what's going to happen next.

 

Enterbrain has released Rpg Maker 2 and 3 in the past. People loved them when it went straight to p.c. then just stuck with pixelation.

Edited September 25, 2015 by EarthKat34

[+ TBWCS 953]

 

@EarthKat34 - I never played any WRPG at all. I am a full JRPG and Japanese games only player. But I have experience in modding games. That was what I was doing before meeting RPG Maker (which was XP). And again let me tell you that it isn't just Data-Copy-Save function that you can add in the maker by default. I like to iterate this again: since 3D models are different from a simple 2D image, you'll need to program everything just for the model to show on the game space. 

 

Here's the thing, you mentioned about script plugin for this. With it, yes you can do it. But what comes next after you import it? Script to make it work. A 3D model would cause a lot of programming to be built in order to make the model work in the 3d space...i.e. Vector3f (which I use in Java), Geometry, BoxCollider, etc. Do you think Enterbrain would go through all that just to make 3D availability work for them? Nope. Pretty sure if they do that, it would make the engine a lot complicated and expensive, which is counter intuitive to what they want to make, which is simple and easy to use.

 

Hell, even Battle Realms map and game modder needed a third party software just for creating and importing, and still, there's a lot of scripting involved inside the game data that needs it to work.

 

 You said Enterbrain made it quite clear that there won't be any 3d Rpg Makers in the future. IMO they're not reaching out to everyone's needs.

 

That is because Enterbrain's RPG Maker was intended for hobbyists, not for some hot shot game developing engine. It's intended to a niche market on making their own games with it.

 

Like I pointed out, if you want to make 3D games, there's Unity, Unreal, Neo-Axis Engine, Blender Game Engine, etc. that you can use. If you want to make a 2D RPG, there's RPG Maker. If you want to use Unity with ease for RPG, there's UniRPG.

 

 

I know this.

 

Enterbrain doesn't have to do a plugin. Since this is going to be in Java, there's bound to be someone out there that has an ambition to give MV an enchancement. I wouldn't doubt the ambitious potential people to do so. So, I encourage us all not to assume what's going to happen. Only time will tell what's going to happen next.

 

Enterbrain has released Rpg Maker 2 and 3 in the past. People loved them when it went straight to p.c. then just stuck with pixelation.

 

 

Again its not Java but JavaScript. There's a big difference in that. Most of the things that are libraries in Java are not applicable in JavaScript as well. Look at their graphics library for example, both are hugely different.

 

I am not assuming at all. Yes, it is ambitious to create a function to import the 3d model into the maker. Then now what? Would you expect every user to actually code the movement and all functions too? Or let the ambitious person to do the function of the imported 3d models as well? That's just a hell lot of work. Not all models work the same, so everything has to be done fairly different.

 

RPG Maker 2 is not for the PC but for the Playstation consoles. If you are talking about getting it in the PC, that is perhaps because you're using a PSX2 or PSX to make it work. By then there wasn't even a model import option, and can't be released as a stand alone program.

 

IF, RPG Maker series would leap to 3D, that is nice. But really, RPG Maker MV being 2D by default is good as it is.

[EarthKat2035 9]

 

 

@EarthKat34 - I never played any WRPG at all. I am a full JRPG and Japanese games only player. But I have experience in modding games. That was what I was doing before meeting RPG Maker (which was XP). And again let me tell you that it isn't just Data-Copy-Save function that you can add in the maker by default. I like to iterate this again: since 3D models are different from a simple 2D image, you'll need to program everything just for the model to show on the game space. 

 

Here's the thing, you mentioned about script plugin for this. With it, yes you can do it. But what comes next after you import it? Script to make it work. A 3D model would cause a lot of programming to be built in order to make the model work in the 3d space...i.e. Vector3f (which I use in Java), Geometry, BoxCollider, etc. Do you think Enterbrain would go through all that just to make 3D availability work for them? Nope. Pretty sure if they do that, it would make the engine a lot complicated and expensive, which is counter intuitive to what they want to make, which is simple and easy to use.

 

Hell, even Battle Realms map and game modder needed a third party software just for creating and importing, and still, there's a lot of scripting involved inside the game data that needs it to work.

 

 You said Enterbrain made it quite clear that there won't be any 3d Rpg Makers in the future. IMO they're not reaching out to everyone's needs.

 

That is because Enterbrain's RPG Maker was intended for hobbyists, not for some hot shot game developing engine. It's intended to a niche market on making their own games with it.

 

Like I pointed out, if you want to make 3D games, there's Unity, Unreal, Neo-Axis Engine, Blender Game Engine, etc. that you can use. If you want to make a 2D RPG, there's RPG Maker. If you want to use Unity with ease for RPG, there's UniRPG.

 

 

I know this.

 

Enterbrain doesn't have to do a plugin. Since this is going to be in Java, there's bound to be someone out there that has an ambition to give MV an enchancement. I wouldn't doubt the ambitious potential people to do so. So, I encourage us all not to assume what's going to happen. Only time will tell what's going to happen next.

 

Enterbrain has released Rpg Maker 2 and 3 in the past. People loved them when it went straight to p.c. then just stuck with pixelation.

 

 

Again its not Java but JavaScript. There's a big difference in that. Most of the things that are libraries in Java are not applicable in JavaScript as well. Look at their graphics library for example, both are hugely different.

 

I am not assuming at all. Yes, it is ambitious to create a function to import the 3d model into the maker. Then now what? Would you expect every user to actually code the movement and all functions too? Or let the ambitious person to do the function of the imported 3d models as well? That's just a hell lot of work. Not all models work the same, so everything has to be done fairly different.

 

RPG Maker 2 is not for the PC but for the Playstation consoles. If you are talking about getting it in the PC, that is perhaps because you're using a PSX2 or PSX to make it work. By then there wasn't even a model import option, and can't be released as a stand alone program.

 

IF, RPG Maker series would leap to 3D, that is nice. But really, RPG Maker MV being 2D by default is good as it is.

 

 

No seriously I already know what you're talking about. I'm quite sure there ARE people out there willing to make a plugin. The world is a HUGE place. 

 

About Rpg Maker 2? That's not what I meant. I was referring to way back then on the consoles. Everyone enjoys retro but the pixel community is still a minority.

[+ TBWCS 953]

And like I said, there will be people who would make a plugin for the 3D option. of course, there's a big possibility for that. But then the work after comes from the user, and its complexity. JavaScript depends on XML for the 3D models to work for its rigging, animation sequence, material and positioning. If there are other ways to import the 3D model entirely in JavaScript, that I don't know. Even in Unity, there are still things that is needed to be done in the model.

 

If we can import, say a 3D model of a character in the maker, after that comes how to make it work. 

 

If you really know what I am talking about, you should have known that what I am talking about is making sense on what is actually going to happen IF this is going to be a thing. But let me tell you a bonus information: In RPG Maker XP, you can import 3D models and Blender Cycles. You can make them work with custom collision, through a script a Japanese hobbyist made. I found it before, and I might link it to you when I found the link of it.

[EarthKat2035 9]

If you really know what I am talking about, you should have known that what I am talking about is making sense on what is actually going to happen IF this is going to be a thing.

 

But there in lies a bad problem with that statement. You don't know me. You can judge from what I type since this is only a forum and I only want to limit what I can say cuz I don't want to flood the forums in disrespect. No offense, but the only reason that part of your statements doesn't make any sense is because I know better than that. You're entitiled to your opinions and I respect that.

 

Now if you and I spoke on the phone or in person, then you would truly understand that I DO know exactly what you're saying. The situation and emotion is completely different than the forums.

[+ TBWCS 953]

In what sense exactly? I am making a point that the 3D import is possible, sure, but to work it out in the maker is a different word. If you think I don't know what I am talking about, that is where you're wrong. I don't want to do that because that'd be the side where it goes shoves the topic and goes into another one, and I am sticking out on the topic that while the 3D import is possible, there's a lot to consider Programming sense. If you think I don't know anything about programming at all, that is where you're wrong. I am talking about this the way that it affects the engine as well. I can also discuss to you why even if the 3D import is possible, it may just slow down the game engine. We can dig deeper than that if you want.

 

But then again, the OP is discussing about the possibilities, and I have clearly stated my point.

[EarthKat2035 9]

In what sense exactly? I am making a point that the 3D import is possible, sure, but to work it out in the maker is a different word. If you think I don't know what I am talking about, that is where you're wrong. I don't want to do that because that'd be the side where it goes shoves the topic and goes into another one, and I am sticking out on the topic that while the 3D import is possible, there's a lot to consider Programming sense. If you think I don't know anything about programming at all, that is where you're wrong. I am talking about this the way that it affects the engine as well. I can also discuss to you why even if the 3D import is possible, it may just slow down the game engine. We can dig deeper than that if you want.

 

But then again, the OP is discussing about the possibilities, and I have clearly stated my point.

 

I am wrong when you're in the same agreement as I am about the possibilities? I AM the OP of this topic dude, that's why I opened this to begin with. You telling me that I am wrong about me not knowing what you're talking about? Again that is very much incorrect. I'll say it again you-do-not-know-me. I didn't say nothing about you not knowing anything about programming at all in any context. I'm sure you know what you're doing and I very much get that. That's cool and all. It's your judgement that I'm concerned about telling me I don't know what you're talking about. I want that to stop. Let's drop that part okay?

 

As far as "digging deeper" is concerned there's nothing to dig into. It don't take a freakin rocket scientist to put something together.  

 

I am through with topic now.

[EarthKat2035 9]

I requested to the Admins for this thread to close. Thank you everyone for your kind opinions. It is highly appreciated. Have a nice week.

[Tsukihime 1,489]

And like I said, there will be people who would make a plugin for the 3D option. of course, there's a big possibility for that. But then the work after comes from the user, and its complexity. JavaScript depends on XML for the 3D models to work for its rigging, animation sequence, material and positioning. If there are other ways to import the 3D model entirely in JavaScript, that I don't know. Even in Unity, there are still things that is needed to be done in the model.

If there will be people that will make plugins for 3D import, then there will be people that will add support for handling 3D in-game.

 

And no, Javascript does not "depend on XML". In fact, it's strange that someone would even rely on XML as the format of choice when Javascript supports JSON natively.

 

There are plenty of ways to import 3D models: you just need to write an importer. If there are other things that need to be done, then just write them.

 

I'm not sure what is the problem with 3D here, especially since a hobbyist implemented 3D support for RMXP.

[+ TBWCS 953]

Well that'd be noble if someone would handle the ones in game. Or, the ones who would use the import option would surely be the ones who'd do the support handling for 3D.

 

XML has been the readable data used for the 3D rigging sequence for some third parties for Java and JavaScript. But like I said, this is not entirely the truth, because surely, there'd be a lot more options out there.

 

And like I said so long as someone would do all the work, there's really no problem, that's a well and good kind of thing. Last line of my point is that its possible, as I've seen one in RMXP.

[Tsukihime 1,489]

Yes, so once someone writes a plugin that will read 3D data properly, then it's up to artists to create their 3D models properly and then just plug it into the game.

[kaz 1,338]

Closed by request of OP