World of Chaos Church Idea

[Lord Vectra 414]

I asked a very similar question but this one is a bit different.

 

As some know, in World of Chaos, I plan to create a Church. In Dragon Age: Origins, you get x amount of exp when you find lore. Since Church is an ongoing lore, what if I did the same thing for it. As some of you know, I'm creating a bible for my project. Therefore, at the right times, I can quote the bible when needed without having to think of a verse out of thin air.

 

For example, here's a situation where the bible was quoted.

This gate is forever frozen from non-melting ice

by Gust, the God of Ice.

 

Gods 4:6 "My ice is like my power, it cannot melt."

 

Here's another

The bible does specifically state that

Magnificent is no fool...

 

Gods 1:14

"Magnificent, God of Chaosia, is the most cunning 

of them all; he can have lies within the lies of 

other lies."

Note: I plan to add one more verse but i haven't gotten to that part of the bible yet.

 

Back to topic

Every time you come in, you learn something new. Basically, like a real church, you learn more about the bible. Every time you go, you read more into the bible and is taught how to understand it. With this you gain a small amount of exp. This is optional so it's not like one of the gods are going to come up and say "Go to church or die by the will of the gods."

 

With this I plan to give more exp on other things you do while in the church. For example,

 

The priest says

"In the bible, why is Lord Eldust talked about in 3rd person? Why couldn't Lord Eldust write about himself?"

Note: Lord Eldust is the God of Dragons

 

You are given a choice to raise your hand.

 

You get 3 choices to answer it correctly and the correct answer would be:

"Because the Bible is the Word of the TEN not Ten PLUS."

 

You get x amount of exp for getting it right and then priest says:

"Exactly, that's also why only ten of them are 1st person and the other four is 3rd person."

 

Then the priest explains why the Bible of the Ten wasn't made differently to include all gods and rename it something else.

 

What you guys think?

[+ Chaosian 617]

Not a bad idea for world building, but quite a lot of work for a feature that isn't mandatory, and already seems to require a fair amount of background knowledge to understand.

[Lord Vectra 414]

Not a bad idea for world building, but quite a lot of work for a feature that isn't mandatory, and already seems to require a fair amount of background knowledge to understand.

I asked a question similar to this and the main problem was that they didn't want it to seem forced and wanted it to be optional. It was already going to be optional but then many seemed like they didn't like it, not without the player being able to pick other religions.

 

I want to try to come out at a different approach. If this doesn't work, then there will be no church option. The Hero of Chaos can't pick other religions. It's almost like Jesus turning his back against God. 

 

Anyways, this is an idea I had for a long time but needed to make sure what my fellow colleagues thought before I put in the effort to put the idea into play.

[lonequeso 1,921]

There's a happy medium. You can easily have a key NPC or part of the main story line requires going into a church at certain points. Seeing as the entire story revolves around Gods, it would be strange if the player never had to step inside of one. Whatever needs to be done in the main quest can and should be pretty straightforward. The only exposition the player learns about the religion is something that pertains to the main story. From there, if the player chooses, they can talk to NPC's or read Bibles or other literature to learn about the religion in detail.

 

I like the idea of giving a small amount of XP for doing so. I always like rewarding the player for exploring the world. Adding a couple side quests here and there is another possibility. You have several religions in your game. You could have an optional quest for each one. It'd be a lot of work adding them all, but it would make your world feel more complex. They're optional so no one should feel like anything is being pushed on them.

 

On that note, I'm not sure how people even took it that way to begin with. It's a fictional religion being created for a fictional videogame. I didn't play Dragon Age and think BioWare was trying to convert me to some nameless religion or push their

personal views and beliefs on me. Did other people? I'm really asking. I'm not getting what the concern is there.

 

So , to recap, you have a game that's entire story is based around Gods and their religions. Not ever having the player need to enter a church doesn't really make sense. You have a very long series. You'd think at some point, the main character would have to interact with a follower or someone high ranking in religion in order to achieve their goal.

 

All the extra information elaborate details about the religion should be optional. Not even for concern of belief pushing. Simply because it's a lot of information the player doesn't need to know to complete the game. Personally, I don't want to read some giant wall of text or hear a really long speech when all I need to know to progress can be explained in a few sentences. I'd imagine a lot of people would feel the same way. It's like the filler in DBZ Just shut and fight already! 

 

As for your specific ideas of how to do it:

1. Having a Bible makes sense if you want to develop the religion in great detail. It will also help you keep track of stuff.
2. XP rewards for choosing to read or ask about the religion is a good idea. Again, I'm always for rewarding the player for exploring.
3. Making a quiz mini game is a good idea, too. Personally, I like them. They can be a fun little thing to do on the side. It should definitely be an optional. If most like them too, implement it. Otherwise, it probably won't be worth the time and effort.
4. I don't really like the idea of sitting through a sermon, optional or not. It seems like the event would take too long and/or be too boring. You don't want to put a ton of time and effort into something very few players want to do. Same thing as the quizzes. If a lot of people like this idea, go with it.. If not, it's probably not worth adding.

Edited October 18, 2015 by lonequeso

[Lord Vectra 414]

 

personal views and beliefs on me. Did other people? I'm really asking. I'm getting what the concern is there.

Quotes: Red

Orange: Bible quotes

Note: Identities are hidden

 

Unless religion and faith is the crux of your story, which if it is will make atheists and agnostics such as myself less inclined to play it regardless, use it in moderation.

I, personally, don't understand why many would be offended but... yeah. The entire story is revolves around the religion. To be honest, I almost wanted to throw away the project if people took religion in a game so seriously.

 

Even in times where religion dominated there were people like that, they just either weren't well-liked or were killed/tortured for it (just like many scientists were). Some people will also pretend to be faithful to avoid the being ostracized as a lot of human beings have an innate need for community.... You should keep that in mind if you want your game world to feel like a real place.

In World of Chaos, the believers are not savages but then again, there aren't any non-believers. There are 3 religions besides the one everyone believes. The 3 religions were born because of the "real" religion. For example, The Malacari Religion was formed because they believe Battle-Horn, God of Holy, wasn't doing his job to kill Magnificent, God of Chaos. The Ravengear religion was forged because a guy wanted to overthrow all gods. Even after death, his followers stand strictly loyal to him.

 

not to force your players to identify with a belief system that doesn't reflect their own.

no comment

 

In real life, people are allowed to decide for themselves what they believe; the same should hold true in your game if you're interested in depicting a realistic world.

I wish I haven't said the word "real." Imagine this: "Dreg is the chosen Hero of Chaos from birth, by God Battle-Horn, but Dreg decides to serve Ravengear instead." O_O??? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense (sarcasm)

 

There's nothing wrong with a faithful protagonist either, just don't expect people like me to enjoy playing if my analogue for the world is a completely different person to who I am.

All because of a fictional religion? I can kind of see why Dragon Age didn't go more in-depth even though it was religion-based. The only verse I saw in that game, mainly because I'm always a mage is, "Magic is to serve men but not rule over them."

 

That might be a little ignorant of me to say but if this is a world where a religion can be proven true, than there's no point in having other religions at all.

As I said above, there are other religions. Currently, I have three but I plan on adding more.

 

Forgot to add, there's always the possibility that the power is real but not the religion; the priests are running a scam. 

Sadly, in the Word of Ten, if that actually happened, they would be destroyed by lightning,

Gods 5:15 "...lightning, like a father, only strikes to protect or kill those needed."

 

Or worse, have to answer to Falcatore, God of Fire. In this case, Battle-Horn won't hold him back.

 

Gods 3:8 "In my presence, disrespecting us, Gods, is basically making a death wish."

Falcatore can get a little... heated.

 

but still religious enough to believe that my religion is "the one," and I think it would be a really weird experience personally to play a game where I'm attending a church in a "different" religion.

Anyways, do people even know how many religions is out there? I have to appeal to every single religion which will just change the entire story. If that is what it takes, I rather scrap the entire idea.

 

All of that is to answer your question lol.

[KainLightsworn 63]

Incorporating any sort of religion into your game and making it a major part of the story is always a risky move. It will ALWAYS turn some people off, especially if it isn't leading up to 'this whole religion is completely fake', like in Final Fantasy X or Tales of Symphonia. Sometimes, even THAT in ITSELF as a plot element will turn people off.

 

Frankly, I love your idea and I love the amount of effort and world-building you're putting into it. And giving small rewards of EXP for reading books sounds like a good idea. (I might do that myself, since, in the absence of a real Codex-like script, there's not much of a way to recap information if it's not needed.)

 

I'd go poking around in the churches and bookshelves to see what neat information I can find. So I say full steam ahead. You don't have to make sitting through sermons mandatory, but offering rewards for players who do so is a nice way to balance out the time put into it.

 

Of course, I say this knowing my own work is being forced to walk a thin line due to it being set in a world where pluralism hasn't taken hold as much of a cultural thing yet. 

[lonequeso 1,921]

I remember the original post spiraling into a religious debate. Not sure how that happened. Because again, it's about a fictional religion created for a â€‹fictional video game. Like no other game has ever had religion as a major part of the story. I don't know why people so quickly try and make it anything more than that. I can see why the religion in Dragon Age remained nameless. 

 

Personally, I wouldn't scrap the game or the church concept. You're never going to please everybody.

[Lord Vectra 414]

I remember the original post spiraling into a religious debate. Not sure how that happened. Because again, it's about a fictional religion created for a â€‹fictional video game. Like no other game has ever had religion as a major part of the story. I don't know why people so quickly try and make it anything more than that. I can see why the religion in Dragon Age remained nameless. 

 

Personally, I wouldn't scrap the game or the church concept. You're never going to please everybody.

It has a name; Chantry is it's name. I thought it was the name of their church but it's the name of their religion too.

 

It's still obvious why they only mention one verse over and over.

 

Anyways, at least I know some people like the idea 

[Rezanta 373]

Very interesting idea, Vectra, my friend. If the church gives you exp, could you possibly just use them early on to level up, or are they spaced out and about? Also, as for the verse part, don't worry. I get the same problem by having my own gods, but people in my community understand stuff better than some on the webs do. XD

[Lord Vectra 414]

Very interesting idea, Vectra, my friend. If the church gives you exp, could you possibly just use them early on to level up, or are they spaced out and about? Also, as for the verse part, don't worry. I get the same problem by having my own gods, but people in my community understand stuff better than some on the webs do. XD

I don't know yet. I'm thinking of doing Ion's idea to have side quests. My quests are made in Tiers. Weapons, armors, enemies, and quests are categorized in Tiers; to learn more, go here: http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/blog/439/entry-1698-world-of-chaos-progress-and-plans/

 

Anyways, if I go with Ion's idea, it'll be spaced out. If I don't, you can go as many times a you like until you get to the end of the bible.

 

 

 

I like the idea of giving a small amount of XP for doing so. I always like rewarding the player for exploring the world. Adding a couple side quests here and there is another possibility. You have several religions in your game. You could have an optional quest for each one. It'd be a lot of work adding them all, but it would make your world feel more complex. They're optional so no one should feel like anything is being pushed on them.

I already have side quests for the Malacari (Vladimor, Meazor, and Vladimus) and I barely started on the Ravengear side quest. Necro-ality is a DLC for World of Chaos. It's like Dragon Age: Awakening; it's separate but not separate. So I might do it for the Church of the Ten as well.

[Kayzee 4,032]

Well as I touched on in the other thread briefly before it devolved into talking more about religion it's self, I would be a lot more keen if the religion was actually interesting. Not to say it isn't now, but... really what do you have to say about religion that is really new? What about the structure of your religion is really different from boring Judeo-Christian analogs or typical vague polytheistic RPG faiths? Is there interesting commentary or debate about your religion? Does it inform your characters to hold opinions that create interesting dynamics without rehashing the same old tired "faith vs logic" dynamics we see in a billion other stories? Is the teachings off the religion actually have any any real meaning and does it get analyzed in a meaningful way?

 

I am not going to say religion in games is bad, but I will say that most of the time it's boring. Because it's not often not actually well thought out or really goes anywhere, and because for the most part a lot of what there is to be said about religion has already been said. Using it for the sake of just having more lore just feels empty to me, feels like a waste. I want to see games which have actual meaningful things to say dammit! Is that so wrong?

[Lord Vectra 414]

On behalf of all Christians, it's not "Faith vs Logic." If you read the bible, you would understand. The Catholic Leaders, back in the day, spread a lot of lies. God clearly stated to read the bible yourself because, like in ALL careers, there are corrupted pastors who eventually get's shown for the frauds they are. Look at the Catholics back in the day, they were clearly shown. By the way, I'm not Catholic. I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. And I don't worship idols AKA saints.

 

Leviticus 26:1

“You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God."

 

Back to topic

In my game, at times, you actually witness a God. As far as corruption, I've already explained that but I'll explain again.

 

Forgot to add, there's always the possibility that the power is real but not the religion; the priests are running a scam. 

Sadly, in the Word of Ten, if that actually happened, they would be destroyed by lightning,

Gods 5:15 "...lightning, like a father, only strikes to protect or kill those needed."

 

Or worse, have to answer to Falcatore, God of Fire. In this case, Battle-Horn won't hold him back.

 

Gods 3:8 "In my presence, disrespecting us, Gods, is basically making a death wish."

Falcatore can get a little... heated.

 

Must there be debate for it to be interesting? It can't just be the real deal? The religion isn't extra lore. The Church is extra lore but not the religion itself. The religion IS the story. For example, in my World of Chaos demo, the Chaos God was clearly a huge part of the story. He is but so is God of Fire, God of Ice, God of Holy, God of War, etc. If it turns you off that bad, then I am sorry I couldn't do anything else to please you (no sarcasm, I'm serious).

 

I take great pride in this story. I took many years changing and refining it. Religions aren't topics you can throw to the debate list. They are more lifestyles than religion; of course, I can only speak for Christianity.

 

Titus 3:9

But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

 

All RPG religions have similarities. Why? There isn't a lot you can do with religion; it's either about love or destruction; there is no in between. Like Quest, it's not what it's about, it's about the details you put in it. If a debate is what you're looking for, I'm sorry to disappoint you. The only debate is whether the Gods are doing their job and as I said in my original post, Falcatore doesn't take that lightly. Luckily, Battle-Horn is there to calm Falcatore down. He get's furious when someone question the Gods and don't even know the full story.

 

Note: Quotes that were not coded with a color other than black are quotes from the Christian bible

[lonequeso 1,921]

Heeheehee.. That is so not like religeon in my game. Killozapit, you'd probably find mine boring. In a sense it is the game because the main antagonist is essentially Satan. (but way cooler  ) In another it isn't. I never really go deep into detail about it because the main characters really don't need to know much. It's more of a plot device in my game. I'm not making a full-fledged Bible. There are excerpts here and there. Part for foreshadowing; part to give it some depth.

 

Vectra's is elaborate to say the least. There's plenty of potential to make things really interesting. Personally, I think of it like Greek Mythology. That mythology is like one giant drama- dare I say soap opera? The religion Vectra is developing can become as elaborate as that. 

 

Vectra, I can't wait to see if you can pull it off! 

Edited October 20, 2015 by lonequeso

[Kayzee 4,032]

Well, good! I am not saying "faith vs logic" is the right debate, I am saying it's a example of a debate a lot of fiction with religion gets into. Endlessly. Over and over again. And I am sick of it, because it's not at all the real debate we should be having, and because half of fiction doesn't do it right and just devolves into strawmen, often on both sides. If religion is important to you and the story, then use that! Seriously use it! Make this a meaningful exploration of something I say.

 

And I think there is a whole bunch you can do with religion. It isn't about debate, it's simply about making the religion meaningful, something a person would actually follow and the reason why they would. Honestly it seems kinda cheap to have the gods be obviously real, but that's fine to. Even with that, will you have people who have their own interpretations on the gods will without them being physically there to correct it? What kind of relationship will the gods have with their followers?

 

Look, I am not really that religious, but I appreciate a lot of religious ideas. Maybe it's easier for me because I don't have to worry about conflicts with my own beliefs very much, but if I were to create a fictional religion I would want to do something really interesting and unusual with it, and take it as seriously as possible as something I could see myself actually following. That's all. It seems like too many religions in fiction are set up as strawmen or vague plot devices.

[lonequeso 1,921]

 It seems like too many religions in fiction are set up as strawmen or vague plot devices.

 

 

It's more of a plot device in my game. 

Lmao!

Edited October 20, 2015 by lonequeso