Sneaking around

[lonequeso 1,921]

I'm playing with some different ideas of how I want an event to run. The player reaches a city called York. When they go near the town center, they find a small crowd gathered. Some of the King's soldiers are standing there. They are hunting for a resistance movement that they believed is headquartered in the city. This is both good and bad news for the player. The main objective is to overthrow the King. By overthrow I mean kill. Don't worry, he has it coming  This resistance could provide valuable allies. Problem is, if the soldiers find them, there's going to be a bloodbath. The King is kind of an execute first, ask questions later type of guy. The King is also aware of the player's own quest to kill him. After the soldiers give their speech about loyal citizens reporting strange activities or any sighting of the resistance, they bring up the main character and his party. There was already a bounty on the player's head. Beforehand, bounty hunters and mercenaries were the only ones who knew of this. The King expanded that to the people of York, offering a reward for any information

on your whereabouts. Luckily, everyone hates the King so no one is going to rat you or the resistance movement out. (I may have one or two NPCs summon the guards on you.)

 

The soldiers are now garrisoned in the city, and they are using York police force for some extra manpower. Night falls after the previous scene plays out. The player has to find the resistance movement while avoiding the guards. This is the part I'm playing around with. What is going to happen when a guard see's the player?

 

I have a couple ideas in mind. I'm open to suggestions, too.

 

Option 1:

 

 

Force the player into a battle. There's a couple options within this option. If the player enters a battle, I want escape to be impossible, and Game Over if they lose. The battles aren't particularly challenging, but the player can potential find themselves with low HP trying to get to the Inn to heal. Allowing escape would defeat the purpose of having to sneak around. The soldiers will give some XP and have gold/items drops, but the XP/gold will be lower than the enemies outside the town. No rare items either. Again, I want to emphasize avoiding the guards.

 

The other option I'm considering is for the player to be able to run away before the battle begins The guard sees the player and begins pursuing, and the the player can try to run. The player won't be allowed to enter any building if this happens. Their only escape will be to run out of town.

 

 

Option 2:

You're under arrest! Instead of being forced to fight, the guards toss you in jail

where you will await your visit to the gallows pole. (There's several set up in the town center. Lovely, right?) Dying would make the quest really hard so naturally you try to escape. Luckily, there's a self proclaimed master thief in your party. Emphasis on "self proclaimed." He is skilled enough to pick locks though. Now you have to find a way to escape the jail which involves more sneaking. This like 99.99% of all my ideas was inspired by Legend of Zelda. Sneaking through

the Gerudo Fortress or the castle in Ocarina of Time or sneaking through the castle in the beginning of Wind Waker. Whichever you prefer. Anyway, sneaking through town and a jail is a lot of sneaking around. Overkill?

 

 

I considered having being thrown in jail a consequence of losing a battle with the guards. Losing the battle would be a rare occurrence so I don't feel it be worth the time to set up. 

 

Those are my two ideas. I'm open to other ideas, too. What do you guys think?

 

 

 

 

[Rezanta 373]

Possibly have both actions together? I mean, if they choose to flee, but get caught, then they're thrown into jail and you have to escape before your timed death. Otherwise, you could fight groups of the army, and then if enough are killed (If you're gutsy to take them out along the way), then they start bringing out things like Archers, dragoons, catapults, and so on... (Catapults would be interesting...) If this wouldn't be setled enough, then just have them give cookies to the guards in hope of not dying? XD

 

Anyway, if that's not somethin you'd want in the game, I'd say option 1.

[lonequeso 1,921]

There will be a variety of soldiers in the game. For the most part, you'll be dealing with riflemen in this city. That and police. I'm thinking of going the jail route. It's a long game which means there's a lot of battles from random encounters. It would be a nice change of pace. I'm going to keep it simple. No timed death. I have rough idea of what escaping would be like. Essentially, several guards going on there rounds in different patterns. If you run, they're line of sight doubles, which in most cases, means you'd get recaptured. 

 

I feel that the soldiers would be a more "shoot first and ask questions later" situation. You're going to be executed anyway. They really have no reason to detain you if they can just shoot you in the face. The police wouldn't be as cut throat. Like I said before, everyone hates the King. They'll do their jobs, but that's about it.

 

Dong both could set up some interesting situations. Like you flee the police, but run right a soldier. Battle ensues. You win, but now the police are right on you. I'd need three scripts total do this. There's a really cool one that determines if an event "see" you, and it's free. I think the one to customize movement speeds is free, too. I'd need the guards to be a bit faster than the player otherwise escaping would be too easy. Third, I'd need a path finding script to make the guards be able to chase effectively. Pretty sure that one will cost some $$$. The two I looked at were. 

 

How's that sound though? Soldiers and guards both chase you. If the soldiers reach you, you're forced to battle. If the police reach, you they throw in prison, and you escape. Too much going on or just right?

[EpicFILE 200]

Sneaky mode! 

 

How about restart from the starting point whenever we're spotted by the guards?

I think that would be challenging too.

We have to really observe all the guard patterns to pass this mission.

[lonequeso 1,921]

That'll definitely happen in the jail scenario. I keep picturing the beginning of Ocarina of Time, where you have to sneak past the guards to reach the courtyard. The guard routes will be something similar to that. Still trying to figure out exactly how the player will escape. You can't just walk out the front door. I'm thinking of something liek there's an open window and you have to find a way to reach it. I don't want to use a "Push the block" puzzle. I have enough of those already. Maybe you have to make a makeshift grappling hook. That would require sneak and search the jail for parts the first time. After that, you'd just be able to escape. I think it'd be really annoying if you had to keep gathering all the pieces.

[Rezanta 373]

I'd say just right. I mean, if the game has enough random encounters, then the setup will be good enough to pull off to help the game, but then the testing for speed and all would be required. I think that would jut come down to time there.

[lonequeso 1,921]

Lol. You played the demo of my Chase mini-game    Setting up the timing for the guard's movement will be a stroll through the tulips compared to that.

[Rezanta 373]

Crap, you caught me red handed! XD

Yeah, it will, considering your skill. Besides, I'd rather just murder the guards and screw dah police. I got logic and the city on my side.

[lonequeso 1,921]

I finally got this concept underway. An entire city has become one huge event,  I found a couple really need scripts to check proximity to the guards and chase them accurately (pathfinding). The scripts are actually really easy to use so this event is moving along faster than expected. Fast enough, that I keep upping the ante. I realized there should be a "safe" distance where the guards will stop chasing you. I'll have to add that later. That and another pathfinding script call to make the guard go back to their original also decided to make it so the player can sneak up behind the guards and knock them out. If that happens, that event will be erased. That means it'll be back if you leave the city map and come back, so do they.

You can't enter buildings while being chased, but you can leave the city. That resets everything,

 

I created the jail event. I actually did it first to get comfortable with the Proximity Script. It's nothing super difficult for the player. It doesn't take very long to complete. It's still annoying enough to where you don't want to do it over and over. 

 

If you're caught by the military, you're forced into a battle. If it's the police, they arrest you.

 

Lastly, is the player's actual objective which is to find the rebel's hideout. You have to sneak through the city, finding coded signs that lead you there. You have to find them in order, and the NPC you need to find won't appear until you've found them all. I'm going to use Region ID's to check if the player close enough to see them. I'm thinking within 3 spaces of the sign.

 

This is by far the most complex event I've made so far. Hopefully, there won't be a ton of lag with a the parallel processes and pathfinding scripts.

[Cookie Ninja 374]

Sounds cool enough, I'd like to try it some time!^^ Don't disappoint cookie ninja!

[lonequeso 1,921]

Forgot to mention. There's a handful of citizens walking around outside. At least of them will alert the authorities if you talk to them. There's a pretty good sized reward on your head after all.

 

There is also an NPC in a rundown house in the slums. Single mom with a sick daughter. She asks if she can have some gold to buy medicine. You can respond 3 ways, give her the gold, politely tell her no, or be an asshole. If you pick option3, she'll summon the police to get the reward. Option2, nothing happens. option1, nothing seems to happen, but if you revisit the city at a later time, her daughter will be in good health, and she'll insist on rewarding you. She'll give you some handy item that worth a lot more than the gold you gave her.

[Cookie Ninja 374]

Sweet! I like it when choices actually have some Impact even if its very minor and doesn't affect the overall story

[Kayzee 4,033]

I like the Metal Gear-like idea of an "alert phase". Being seen doesn't automatically throw you into battle, but just makes all the guards/solders around know exactly where you are and can now chase you down directly and quickly, and even if you can fight one or two battles, being ganged up on is bound to have you lose eventually unless you get out of there quick.

Edited November 26, 2015 by KilloZapit

[lonequeso 1,921]

It doesn't work quite like that. I don't think it's even feasible to have every guard track down the player. All those pathfinding scripts running at once 

*shudder* The lag would be horrible. Only the guard that spots you will give chase. Either run away or enter the battle/be captured (depending on who spots you.) Running away increases the proximity range of the other guards so if you do run, it'll very likely you'll get spotted by another. You can't enter buildings either. If the player gets far enough away from the guard that's chasing them, they'll give up. Most of them will go back to their original positions and resume their guard routes. Some don't have set routes. They wander randomly, and will just continue moving randomly wherever they end up if the player evades them. In some cases, it may be more beneficial just to enter a battle or get captured.

 

To balance it, the battles aren't going to be easy and the XP and gold you earn is really a consolation prize. These aren't enemies you'd want to try and level grind against. Getting caught can get annoying really quickly. It's not particularity hard to escape the prison, but having to do it over and over should provide some motivation to not get caught. But running could force you into multiple battles. By default, events don't reset positions when a battle is entered. So, if you got three military NPCs on you and one catches you, you're going to have to fight three waves. There's three different Troops that can appear as well. Once defeated, those events are removed until the player leaves the map. Same for if they sneak up behind them and knock 'em out.

 

So far, it's been running lag free. The only bad thing is the pathfinding script doesn't recognize other events. Potentially, a randomly moving NPC can screw up another one's move route. There's supposed to be another version of the script that will account for other events. The other issue is 4-way passability. IF a direction is turned off, the script doesn't recognize it. If the NPC walks through it, it seems to cause the script to go into an infinite loop. Once those details get ironed out, everything should run nice and smooth. 

[Kayzee 4,033]

Why do you need to do crazy pathfinding? I usually get by well enough by simply turning when running into an obstetrical. Besides, pathfinding should not be that slow anyway.

[lonequeso 1,921]

Well.....I probably don't need to do any crazy pathfinding. This is my first foray into pathfinding. I couldn't find any script that does what you're describing. Does it even require a script, or just some script calls?

 

Have you ever had an event chase the player using that method? The script I'm using does it incredibly well.

I don't want the AI to be too dumb when giving chase. If the events are constantly bouncing off walls, it's not going to work.

 

As far as lag goes, the script has several methods of pathfinding to choose from, each increasing in complexity. The least memory intensive version runs smoothly when testing it. Running what will probably be at least a dozen (probably closer to 20) different pathfinding events would very likely cause some lag. 

That method has of range of 100 tiles which is more than I need for the chase. 16 tiles is the threshold for the guard giving up. So, I likely don't need anything that elaborate.

 

This is the script I'm using: http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/4328-karanums-pathfinding-script/

 

If you can show me how to set up what you described or know of a script with a smaller radius, that info would be greatly appreciated. I should mention, the script needs to be available for commercial use.

Edited November 27, 2015 by lonequeso

[Kayzee 4,033]

I made my own script as part of my silly dungeon demo thing/ It mostly relies on a simpler move route script I made. It's basically just face player, check forward, go forward if clear, if blocked check right, go right if clear, if blocked check left... and so on. Simple and goes around most small obstacles. If I wanted to be fancy I could use a pathfinding script and check distance, doing a full path trace if and only if the next step is further away then the current position.

[lonequeso 1,921]

Hmm.. The pathfinding that's necessary isn't complex at all. Just moving around buildings and an occasional object here and there.

It accurately updates as the player moves and doesn't make the event run into walls like a lemming?

 

Something like that may work. It'd be a hell of a lot more efficient. I still wouldn't have every guard track the player. I'd use the proxy script to do it within a certain radius. Soo... may I use this script? Pwetty pwease with sugar on top?

[Kayzee 4,033]

You can use whatever you want, but I am not sure how useful most of my scripts will be since they are kinda too tied in to my other scripts in the demo.

[lonequeso 1,921]

So what you're saying is using your script may cause my laptop to spontaneously combust. Got it. It may be worth a try. I found another script, too. I'm also worried about compatibility with it. For now, I'm going to stick with what I have. I haven't tested it with more than a couple events running at once. If lag becomes an issue, I'll look into yours. Thanks in advance 

[Kayzee 4,033]

Good luck! *sprinkles fairy dust on you*

[devonm0 37]

Your mention about having to make an improvised grappling hook or something got me thinking.  I'd always wondered as a kid why the Gerudo from Ocarina of Time and Moblins from Wind Waker didn't disarm Link on capturing him.  Certainly it makes sense now, but since you said you're basing a lot of what you're doing off of your memories from Zelda games, I would like to think you have puzzle elements that rely on certain items on the field, like bombs.  If so, then if the player is captured you can have the characters relieved of their bombs and other puzzle items.  Of course I realize I'm assuming quite a lot, but whatever.

[Rezanta 373]

Well, if your computer combusts, you could borrow my Windows 8.1 XD Anyway, I hope things go well, because I'd love to play this game when its ready.

[lonequeso 1,921]

@devonm0- I always wonder about things like that in games as well. In the jail, you actually are disarmed. I did it pretty much just for that reason. Your gear is in the same room as the exit. From a gameplay standpoint it's totally pointless seeing as there's no combat between getting caught and escaping. I just couldn't get past the logic of not being disarmed. It did lead to something useful. I don't want to force the player to create the grappling hook every time they're caught. That'd be overkill. So after the first time, the hook is right where your gear is, conveniently in the room you escape.

 

I wanted it to be inconvenient enough to where you don't want to get caught without making it overly frustrating. It is worth getting caught once just to hear some fun dialogue. I actually just finished all the guard events for the city. They're all working just how I want them. Now I need to play test with all of the guards on the map. I want to see how much lag there would be if multiple guards are chasing you. I know it won;t be completely lag free, but if it's minimal on my old laptop it shouldn't be an issue. 

 

All that's left after that is the events for finding the hidden messages and finding the rebels.

After that I'm going to start play testing the entire game from the very beginning again. I know my early cities are going to need a makeover, and I played around with the combat so I have make sure it's still balanced throughout.