Making Combat fun but challenging.

[Ragnos 122]

What do you think makes combat fun and challenging? Something that isn't just spamming space... or enter. Currently I have been making it more centered around using skills strategically, and leveling up your skills (Though that comes after Prologue chapter.)

 

 

[Rezanta 373]

Making the battle system like Fire Emblem works wonders, and would fall around what you want.

[lonequeso 1,921]

Smarter enemies = more challenging. The conditions you can create in RPG Maker are decent, but if you really want to up the ante, look into some scripts.

Adding more states can makes things more challenging. The more positive and negative statuses there are, the more options you have for devising strategies and counters. The same can be said for elements. USe all the parameters at your disposal. Things like CNT, MRF, regens, etc will give you more varied battlers. 

 

When I design my troops, I make sure to give them a good balance. Not all of them. There are instances where the player can run into a troop with all the same enemy type, but I also throw in a lot of different enemy combinations. Those enemies have diverse base stats, elemental strengths/weaknesses, skills, state rates/resistances, passive bonuses. Pretty much everything. Make enemies that compliment each other. If one is weak against fire, make another resistant. If another's is dealing damage, pair them with a tank or a healer. Balance enemies the same way you balance actors. 

 

I could ramble on for a very long time about this so I'll cut it short. 

[Kmany 5]

A good battle system for a turn based game, is usually a mix of knowledge based puzzle solving and decision making, where you learn what counters what and come up with strategies to cover your weaknesses and exploit the opponents weaknesses to get an edge.. maybe the system also has some combos.. and a little bit of randomness to spice things up..

[Kayzee 4,033]

Well, if you insist on having a traditional turn-based separate screen JRPG battle system, there really is only so much you can do to make combat fun and interesting when each side is just selecting stuff to use on the other from a menu and nothing else. Maybe offer a puzzle or a gimmick for bosses you have to deal with. As for challenge, well, you really have to ask yourself if anything is really a challenge anymore after some grinding, and if giving bosses tons of HP really makes them more then a chore.

 

Sill, a lot of games with this sort of system are fun and challenging. Why? I think that for that kind of battle system a lot of what makes it fun and interesting really has very little to do with the combat system it's self and a lot more to do with the system the player uses to build their characters. For example Final Fantasy V's class system and Final Fantasy VII's materia system. Both offer a deep character customization system that can be used to do many things. As for challenge? It's true that these types of systems tend to be abused, but that isn't any different from grinding really, and optimally requires some forethought and deep understanding of the system first. But these systems also allow bosses and other challenges to test the player on their setup and use of exact strategies.

 

Anyway, outside of traditional JRPG-style combat, I still say my favorite combat system is still roguelike-style combat. Now I say roguelike-style, but it isn't a style exclusive to roguelike games. Many other games like Ultima I-VI (and VI in particular has a nice version of it) and Live-A-Live (though that has the combat on a separate screen and has it's own quirks) also use similar combat (Lufia 2 also does this outside of combat, but has traditional JRPG battles too). It could also be called single-step strategic combat as it is similar in many ways to strategy/tactics like Fire Emblem, Disgaea, and Final Fantasy Tactics except turns are much shorter and mostly go by much much quicker because everything is done in single step units and mostly happens simultaneously. Basically you take a step and one unit of time passes for everyone, and every enemy takes a step. It's really to me almost the perfect compromise between Zelda-like arcade action explication and a strategy game's planing and thinking.

 

But maybe that is just me.

[Ragnos 122]

As for challenge, well, you really have to ask yourself if anything is really a challenge anymore after some grinding, and if giving bosses tons of HP really makes them more then a chore.

 

I usually like to make my bosses with low HP , but you have to have a certain strategy to get around the defenses and buffs. I learned my lesson on creating HP bloated bosses when I created "Lava Void" in Tower of Uso.

[Rezanta 373]

Actually, follow the physics of what a boss looks like, or is. A hippo-like boss is going to have high HP, high def and seven attack. To balance, it would have low speed and MP. (That's how I make my bosses, at least.

[lonequeso 1,921]

@Killozapit- I love Final Fantasy Tactics combat system. There's a ton of character customization, too which makes the system really deep. Character customization does play a big role in making combat fun and challenging. One way to get around of the issue of the player grinding until they can steamroll through everything is make the enemies have levels and be the same or within a certain range of the player's party at all times. The player will still be able to gain better and better abilities, but the battles usually still remain at least somewhat challenging.

 

@Rezanta- Usually make my bosses like that, too. I do it a lot for normal enemies as well. A giant tortoise is going to be slow, but have a lot of HP and DEF. I toss a curveball here and there to keep the player on their toes. I'll sacrifice a little realism with the stats/skills if need be. Constantly giving the player new challenges to overcome will make more challenging and more interesting.

 

@Ragnos- The "HP Sponge" boss set is okay if used sparingly. With those I feel it's necessary to give the enemy a ton of different skills to keep the battle from getting stagnant. Multi-stage bosses work well for that. You can just have the boss change its strategy as it get's weaker, too. Usually those bosses get more aggressive and more dangerous the weaker they get. You can do the opposite, and have the boss try to heal or boost its defenses and/or evasion. I have a boss who starts using an HP drain skill when it gets weaker. Funny little side note: Last night I was doing some battle testing and I used a drain HP skill on an enemy who reflected the magic back. I drained HP from myself and gave it to myself 

Edited April 17, 2016 by lonequeso

[Kayzee 4,033]

@Killozapit- I love Final Fantasy Tactics combat system. There's a ton of character customization, too which makes the system really deep. Character customization does play a big role in making combat fun and challenging. One way to get around of the issue of the player grinding until they can steamroll through everything is make the enemies have levels and be the same or within a certain range of the player's party at all times. The player will still be able to gain better and better abilities, but the battles usually still remain at least somewhat challenging.

 

The battle system I was talking about is basically only like Final Fantasy Tactics in that it involves turn-based movement on a map. The way the turns flow is much much different. Final Fantasy Tactics is very slow and each turn involves moving a great distance, Roguelike style is much faster and each turn involves single step units of time. Take a look at this for example. It looks simple, but there are a ton of tactics involved. Also keep in mind I am counting character growth systems as it's own thing. Final Fantasy V for example has a very similar character growth system to Final Fantasy Tactics (not quite as good, but still pretty similar), but it uses a JRPG battle system.

Edited April 18, 2016 by KilloZapit

[Cookie Ninja 374]

This is a tough question.... There is no single answer here so I'll just say how I'm going about it.

 

• I use a CTB system.
   
• I have 24 elements
   
• 15+ states (and growing)
   
• Enemies come in 9 diffrent classes. With each enemy type having a unique skill or trait.
   
• The enemies have "simple" AI, so that tank class will cover magic users unless some state prevents it.
   
• I use placeholders so that the troops are truly randomized.^^ (2-5 random enemies, and almost any combination may come up)
   
• I use dynamic formulas that generate a bellshaped balance curve. (meaning that the stat difference must be large to generate significant advantage to either side)
   
• Since the battles are longer and strategy heavy, the player needs to be really OP for a whack a mole tactic to work.
   
• The PC needs to charge willpower to use "super attacks". They help you out if you are underpowerd and become non-viable if overpowerd. Mostly intended for special mobs and bosses to switch things up.
   
• Since battles are longer and tougher I have a low encounter rate, so grinding anytime anywhere is tedious. For all the grinders out there I made an arena, where you can meet most of the troops in the game + 5 (as of now) optional bosses, one of wich being a superboss.
   
• Unintended: I was very pleased to discover that I accidentaly made "Flee" a tactical decision. You may want to Flee if you are in too poor condition to deal with the difficulty of the fight (there is some variance because of the randomness in enemy troops) or your equip setup is bad for the enemies at hand. Fight or flight, there is no shame in a tactical retreat, only in foolishly fighting a loosing battle!
  All things considered I upped the successrate of "Flee" to avoid death traps. I like this situation alot more than the common "Lets run because I don't want to whack a mole the same bunch of lizards, for the hundreth time this hour! <.<"

Wow  , became abit more then intended. Sorry xD

[Ragnos 122]

This is a tough question.... There is no single answer here so I'll just say how I'm going about it.

 

Wow  , became abit more then intended. Sorry xD

Not at all this is good. 

Currently I have given the combat system over to Lord Vectra, who will be in complete control over how the game's battle system will function and play out.