New "RPG Maker" based on the needs of the community.

[♥SOURCE♥ 108]

tl;dr: I'm thinking about creating a new program to make 2D RPGs based on what we (the community) would actually want instead of what some random persons in Japan who don't even use the program think we want, based on what some random persons at Degica communicate to them, and I'd like your feedback.

 

Hello everyone! 

Some of you may know me, some of you may not. I'll tell you a little bit about me to help you understand why I'm thinking about doing this.

 

I've been using RPG Maker for 10 years as of this post, and have enjoyed helping others tell great stories through their games in my time using it.

Part of what I really like about RPG Maker is how friendly it is for beginners and for people with no programming knowledge (such as I was upon first discovering it!), and I firmly believe that we don't have to sacrifice that in order to achieve a much more powerful software.

 

I remember the first time I learned about what "scripts" are. I was amazed! They opened up the doors for things I didn't think possible with the program.

I immediately knew that creating scripts was something I definitely wanted to learn more about. So I did.

 

Learning to program in RPG Maker helped me understand how it really works under the hood, and how unnecessarily limited it is.

At first, I enjoyed the challenge of making new solutions to work around the program's limitations. 

I saw lots of impressive projects suffer because of the program's limitations, and decided to do something about it. That's how Effectus was born.

 

Many problems in RPG Maker are related to the program's performance, but there are many that aren't. Having used every iteration of the program since RPG Maker XP, I found lots of things I'd like to improve about the workflow of the editor, and the architecture of both the editor (the program itself) and the player (what runs the games made with it).

 

I had really high hopes for MV. I thought they were finally going to adress most of what the community has been voicing for more than a decade. They didn't.

MV might be an improvement upon Ace, but it is definitely not what I wanted. It's not what I expected after a decade and after three iterations of basically the same program with different names.

 

Last year, I talked with my good friends Solistra and Enelvon about the limitations of the program and what we could do about it. At first, we focused on the limitations of RGSS (every version) and the "player", and thus, we decided to make a new one to play games made with RPG Maker. We did, and by doing that, I noticed how much I had to artificially limit many things in order to honor RPG Maker's architecture.

The player, although almost complete (...missing wave effects for Sprites and some minor release details, basically) was never released. I didn't want to do the same thing I fault RPG Maker for: artificially limit things.

 

By the end of the year, I told them that maybe we should just go ahead and create a new program altogether. Although they liked the idea, we didn't really move forward with it. They were very busy (still are!) and we didn't have time to talk about it properly.

 

But the seeds of creation were already planted in me. I didn't really stop thinking about it, and the idea has grown since then.

 

Fast forward a couple of months: I'm writing this to request the opinions of the community, because I really love the idea of making a new program instead of fighting against the limitations of RPG Maker.

[lonequeso 1,921]

Sounds like an awesime idea if you believe you can pul it off. Why wouldn't we want a more versatile more powerful less laggy program? If you go through with this,

please pleeeaassee make word wrap and spell check for textboxes. I'd buy it solely for that.

[Kayzee 4,032]

If at least the core program is open source and allows people in the community to add what they like freely then that would be all I would like. You want to license a RTP or make a billion DLCs that's fine. I won't like it of course, but I will understand. Just make the base program and player fully free software/open source and let the community extend it to suit their needs. Otherwise, I have to question why your arbitrary idea of what "the RPG Maker community wants" is any better then a bunch of "random persons in Japan". Or why you think anyone would pay attention to a blatant RPG Maker clone when they could get the brand name they are familiar with for that matter, but that's going to be a problem regardless.

[♥SOURCE♥ 108]

Sounds like an awesime idea if you believe you can pul it off. Why wouldn't we want a more versatile more powerful less laggy program? If you go through with this,

please pleeeaassee make word wrap and spell check for textboxes. I'd buy it solely for that.

 

Text wrap is a given! With proper localization support, you'd be able to spell check every text in your game easily.

 

If at least the core program is open source and allows people in the community to add what they like freely then that would be all I would like. You want to license a RTP or make a billion DLCs that's fine. I won't like it of course, but I will understand. Just make the base program and player fully free software/open source and let the community extend it to suit their needs.

 

I haven't thought about open or closed source yet, but one of the things that I definitely want to include is the ability to extend both the editor and the player. 

For example, I'd like the editor to support a script or plugin added to the project, allowing integrated GUI support for any new features created by the community.

 

Otherwise, I have to question why your arbitrary idea of what "the RPG Maker community wants" is any better then a bunch of "random persons in Japan".

 

I wouldn't call it "arbitrary" since I'm asking for the input of the community. If your question is "why would my ideas be better than those of the japanese developers?": I answered that on my first post: because I actually used every iteration of the program since RPG Maker XP (RPG Maker XP, RPG Maker VX, RPG Maker VX Ace, RPG Maker MV) in a span of 10 years and I'm asking for the input of the community to know what everyone would like to have available.

 

Or why you think anyone would pay attention to a blatant RPG Maker clone when they could get the brand name they are familiar with for that matter, but that's going to be a problem regardless.

 

I wouldn't be making a clone. The whole point of creating a new program is to break free of the limitations of RPG Maker, and "a blatant RPG Maker clone" wouldn't live up to that.

 

When I say "RPG Maker based on the needs of the community", I'm talking about taking the simplicity of RPG Maker, but adding tons of new features, better performance and possibilities. But most importantly removing the limitations every version of RM has had since RMXP up to RMMV.

Edited May 28, 2016 by ♥SOURCE♥

[Rezanta 373]

I'll give you props for going above and beyond! Anyway, something I was thinking is maybe less square maps to be fair, the engine is fine (in my eyes) except for how the maps are made (excluding customization or DLC) and how there isn't a small thing where you can actually draw on the faces or something of the sorts.

[Kayzee 4,032]

I wouldn't call it "arbitrary" since I'm asking for the input of the community. If your question is "why would my ideas be better than those of the japanese developers?": I answered that on my first post: because I actually used every iteration of the program since RPG Maker XP (RPG Maker XP, RPG Maker VX, RPG Maker VX Ace, RPG Maker MV) in a span of 10 years and I'm asking for the input of the community to know what everyone would like to have available.

Well, I have used most RPG Maker programs since I found a SNES ROM of RPG Maker 2, but I am not about to trust myself to such a huge project either. I just don't think any one person actually knows what the community really wants. It's much better I feel for the community to be able to add or change things based on their own needs. Plugins are good, but making it fully open I think is better.

 

I wouldn't be making a clone. The whole point of creating a new program is to break free of the limitations of RPG Maker, and "a blatant RPG Maker clone" wouldn't live up to that.

 

When I say "RPG Maker based on the needs of the community", I'm talking about taking the simplicity of RPG Maker, but adding tons of new features, better performance and possibilities. But most importantly removing the limitations every version of RM has had since RMXP up to RMMV.

Yeah, but will other people see it that way, or automatically dismiss it as a clone?

[+ Asharonapaul 276]

can you add library support as well? so I can use ruby libraries either I create or download? sometimes functions already exist in those libraries that are a pain to recreate just for ace.

[Lord Vectra 414]

I hope that you succeed in your dreams but I'm sticking with Enterbrain. It may not be perfect but that's no reason to leave them. Every program, no matter how good, will always have it's faults. Enterbrain tried tackling issues people had in Ace to MV (for example, phone compatibility) and now that they have, people are complaining that they shouldn't have done. One side says it should be PC and phone while the other side says it should only be PC.

 

I have a sense of loyalty to companies (and I'm not saying you don't). Enterbrain is one of those companies and I don't think I'll ever kick it to the curve for another program. I'm not saying I'm not going to try other programs (such as yours) but I'm definitely never going to leave any of the RPG Makers completely,

 

I wasn't going to say anything but I feel this is the perfect time to say this, What makes you think Enterbrain does not care? Even if Enterbrain loved us more than our own parents, the program would still have faults. Whether a company (or program) is good or bad is all perspective. People say that Bethesda loves their fans (which I have no doubt about) but I have a feeling that some only believe that because their games are fantastic. Let's take Yu-Gi-Oh, people said Konami doesn't care about it's users but that is only said by those who feel the game sucks. Get by point?

 

I'm not trying to kill your dreams. Please, by all means, pursue them with your heart's content. I hope that one day you make this and succeed. I'm sticking with RPG Maker because I like the challenge and the push for creativity. At first, it was because I had to due to the lack of resources (since I was young) but even with all 310 scripts in my possession, I find myself urging to create, at least, one or more evented system.

 

I like the limits they set because it makes people think and push forward to making an overall better program. The main reason there is little conflict here is because of perspective.

 

KiloZapit's perspective is that it sounds like a clone of RPG Maker that is supposedly supposed to be better.

 

Lonequeso's perspective is that it sounds like a new future.

 

Rezanta's perspective sounds a little like Lonequeso's in a way.

 

My perspective is that you're trying to outclass (if that's even the right word) Enterbrain. I feel that creating a program with no limits would actually be bad because where limits are risen, creativity is lowered. For example, MV created their own side-view system and since then, scripters aren't scripting side-views. If Enterbrain added EVERYTHING everyone wanted in the most simplest form possible, then creativity would be lowered.

 

That is my perspective of this situation.

[Kayzee 4,032]

Enterbrain is an out of touch corporation with outdated business model and development practices, just like about 90% of the game industry today. What I want is a chance to get away from that sort of thing. Wishful thinking I know.

[+ Takeo212 1,079]

Isn't GameGuru and GameMaker for that kind of stuff?

I haven't used those programs, but I know GM Games gets alot of mistaken-ness for being an RPG Maker game (Undertale was so badly mistaken for this at first)

 

I don't think making your on software is a bad thing, but to be fair, if you are going to make your own software, why try making a better RPGM when you can essentially just make anything you want?

I'd try take notes from RPGM and GameMaker to get a feel of how people like their program to run (RPGM is easier to jump into, but GameMaker offers more "indepth" coding).

I could be wrong, but I do agree with Killo. If you claim you want to make a better RPG Maker software, it sounds like a clear copy-cat. Not that I am saying you are but from a community perspective, that's what it sounds like.

 

I do like the idea though of a nice, easy to use software that allows easy importing and exporting and would allow easy coding input to the game itself.

Do you have any personal plans so far for it? or is this all theory and such for the moment?

 

ps: Every iteration? ;P But you haven't played RPGM2k and the PS2 version by the sounds of it~ xD (jk - I haven't used the ps2 version either :/)

[Kayzee 4,032]

If it turns out to be a better program, then it is a better program. I would definitely be interested in seeing where this develops either way.

[Lord Vectra 414]

Id be interested too.

[Cookie Ninja 374]

I'm always pro options, so I'm presenting a request. If possible, could you implement a hybrid of the script editor and the plugin system.

 

The plugin system in MV is great, but it comes with some weaknesses. It presents an easy to use framework for non-scripters, but it presents a little more trixing to actually read the code and scripting from the scripters side. And it comes with a redundancy of having to make a plugin even if you only want to write a line or two.

 

The script editor on the other hand, is readily available directly in the editor. "All" the code is presented in its total and doesn't require some extra work to have it running and modify to suit your needs. The downside is that it requires more from the user when dealing with more complicated scripts. As a matter of fact I found my interest in scripting simply by stumbling upon the script editor in vxa. Had my firs RPGM been MV it is possible that I would never had started scripting at all.

 

Basically what I would want, would be the script editor (with no hidden code) + a script that runs plugins.

 

Ooohh and one more thing, I would like the default engine to include a command console and an easy way to make your own commands. That way you can flip switches and change parameters in game, it would really streamline testing for developers and scripters alike! ^~^

[♥SOURCE♥ 108]

I'll give you props for going above and beyond! Anyway, something I was thinking is maybe less square maps to be fair, the engine is fine (in my eyes) except for how the maps are made (excluding customization or DLC) and how there isn't a small thing where you can actually draw on the faces or something of the sorts.

 

Thanks :3

The map editor would definitely allow less square, more natural-looking maps. Unlimited layers, and some way to integrate "parallax mapping" into the editor as well as classic tile mapping.

 

Do you mean like Paint or similar programs? I think that would add unnecessary complexity to the program, and there are lots of proper drawing software out there that you could use.

 

 

Well, I have used most RPG Maker programs since I found a SNES ROM of RPG Maker 2, but I am not about to trust myself to such a huge project either. I just don't think any one person actually knows what the community really wants. It's much better I feel for the community to be able to add or change things based on their own needs. Plugins are good, but making it fully open I think is better.

 

I agree, no single person could know what the community really wants. That's why I'm asking for input.

I think it's possible to develop a pretty decent idea of the general needs and wishes after talking about it with the community.

 

 

Yeah, but will other people see it that way, or automatically dismiss it as a clone?

 

I understand where you're coming from. I used the term "RPG Maker" within quotation marks in the title because it was the easiest way to say "game development software to make 2D RPGs that is easy to use and requires no programming knowledge", but that in no way means it would be a clone of RPG Maker.

 

Think Construct, Game Maker, and Stencyl. They're tools to make games, but they're not clones of each other.

 

 

can you add library support as well? so I can use ruby libraries either I create or download? sometimes functions already exist in those libraries that are a pain to recreate just for ace.

 

I guess you'd like to script in Ruby.

The scripting language is not set in stone yet, but it wouldn't be limited, so yes, you could use it properly. 

 

 

I wasn't going to say anything but I feel this is the perfect time to say this, What makes you think Enterbrain does not care? Even if Enterbrain loved us more than our own parents, the program would still have faults. Whether a company (or program) is good or bad is all perspective. People say that Bethesda loves their fans (which I have no doubt about) but I have a feeling that some only believe that because their games are fantastic. Let's take Yu-Gi-Oh, people said Konami doesn't care about it's users but that is only said by those who feel the game sucks. Get by point?

 

I'm pretty sure I didn't say they don't *care*. I raised these points in the OP:

 

• They're in Japan, they don't hang around the English-speaking forums.
• It's very likely they don't use the program at all.
• They receive information about the western community through Degica.

 

I feel that creating a program with no limits would actually be bad because where limits are risen, creativity is lowered. For example, MV created their own side-view system and since then, scripters aren't scripting side-views. If Enterbrain added EVERYTHING everyone wanted in the most simplest form possible, then creativity would be lowered.

 

I appreciate your input and your kind words, but I don't agree with the above statement. Artificial limits are not a good thing: they frustrate people and waste the time of anyone who wants to go past them.

Their energy would be best spent making their games instead of fighting against a stubborn program.

 

There are people that enjoy creating solutions to break the limits of the program, yes, but they would also enjoy doing the same in a less rigid program.

 

 

If Enterbrain added EVERYTHING everyone wanted in the most simplest form possible, then creativity would be lowered.

 

Oh, I'm not saying they should. There are constants in what the community has been asking for a while, general things.

 

 

Isn't GameGuru and GameMaker for that kind of stuff?

I haven't used those programs, but I know GM Games gets alot of mistaken-ness for being an RPG Maker game (Undertale was so badly mistaken for this at first)

 

I don't think making your on software is a bad thing, but to be fair, if you are going to make your own software, why try making a better RPGM when you can essentially just make anything you want?

I'd try take notes from RPGM and GameMaker to get a feel of how people like their program to run (RPGM is easier to jump into, but GameMaker offers more "indepth" coding).

I could be wrong, but I do agree with Killo. If you claim you want to make a better RPG Maker software, it sounds like a clear copy-cat. Not that I am saying you are but from a community perspective, that's what it sounds like.

 

I do like the idea though of a nice, easy to use software that allows easy importing and exporting and would allow easy coding input to the game itself.

 

Quoting what I wrote above in this post:

 

I used the term "RPG Maker" within quotation marks in the title because it was the easiest way to say "game development software to make 2D RPGs that is easy to use and requires no programming knowledge", but that in no way means it would be a clone of RPG Maker.

 

Think Construct, Game Maker, and Stencyl. They're tools to make games, but they're not clones of each other.

 

 

Do you have any personal plans so far for it? or is this all theory and such for the moment?

 

Yes, I do, but I'd like to know how it ties with what the community wants. 

 

(True, I've only used the PC versions.)

 

 

I'm always pro options, so I'm presenting a request. If possible, could you implement a hybrid of the script editor and the plugin system.

 

The plugin system in MV is great, but it comes with some weaknesses. It presents an easy to use framework for non-scripters, but it presents a little more trixing to actually read the code and scripting from the scripters side. And it comes with a redundancy of having to make a plugin even if you only want to write a line or two.

 

The script editor on the other hand, is readily available directly in the editor. "All" the code is presented in its total and doesn't require some extra work to have it running and modify to suit your needs. The downside is that it requires more from the user when dealing with more complicated scripts. As a matter of fact I found my interest in scripting simply by stumbling upon the script editor in vxa. Had my firs RPGM been MV it is possible that I would never had started scripting at all.

 

Basically what I would want, would be the script editor (with no hidden code) + a script that runs plugins.

 

Ooohh and one more thing, I would like the default engine to include a command console and an easy way to make your own commands. That way you can flip switches and change parameters in game, it would really streamline testing for developers and scripters alike! ^~^

 

I would like that too!

 

The command console sounds like it would be very good for playtesting and debugging.

[Rikifive 3,411]

I just would love:

- good and stable performance (RM lacks of that!)

- all-keys-on-keyboard support (RM lacks of that! ~ by default)

- Multiple Controllers support (RM lacks of that!)

- Perhaps Frame Skip? (Slow-mo mode disallows to make few things like minigames synced with music)

- Support multiple scripting languages maybe? I can work with ruby, while with JS nope ~ but perhaps I'd start toying with that sometimes...?

 

The rest I don't care ~ It can even not have any default scripts in here ~ I'd make a non RPG in here anyway. =3

 

 

MV is a big disappointment for me, since it still would limit me. (Well that's what I get for making not RPG in an RPG Maker lol)

 

What I dislike in RM though is no real support. The developers DON'T care about their program's users. They only support it for like few months to fix major issues and that's it. The communities are the only help. It's good I know, but there are some silly limits, that IMO could be removed, but well, I think I should look up for another program.

 

I really want that controller support. I cri evritiem. ='(

[Shiggy 630]

I've only used RPG Maker for 6 months mostly making scripts for other people instead of making my own games .
And if VX ace has a lot of limitations,MV removed a lot of them by giving access to a much bigger part of the code . 

It still lacks features you need to implement yourself but that's a lot better than before

In fact , I would be using only MV if i didn't like Ruby that much compared to Javascript.

To me one missing feature not mentionned before is some ways to keep track of projects versions github style to let multiple people work on a project.

 

 

 

Tho I'm not sure I would use  the new engine ...

To me ideally ,the new engine would be an open-source GUI extension to an already existing open-source 2D engine, (it's easier to do and may guarantee more support)  but I would still stick to RM for the community

[♥SOURCE♥ 108]

I just would love:

- good and stable performance (RM lacks of that!)

- all-keys-on-keyboard support (RM lacks of that! ~ by default)

- Multiple Controllers support (RM lacks of that!)

- Perhaps Frame Skip? (Slow-mo mode disallows to make few things like minigames synced with music)

- Support multiple scripting languages maybe? I can work with ruby, while with JS nope ~ but perhaps I'd start toying with that sometimes...?

 

The rest I don't care ~ It can even not have any default scripts in here ~ I'd make a non RPG in here anyway. =3

 

 

MV is a big disappointment for me, since it still would limit me. (Well that's what I get for making not RPG in an RPG Maker lol)

 

What I dislike in RM though is no real support. The developers DON'T care about their program's users. They only support it for like few months to fix major issues and that's it. The communities are the only help. It's good I know, but there are some silly limits, that IMO could be removed, but well, I think I should look up for another program.

 

I really want that controller support. I cri evritiem. ='(

 

Could you elaborate more on the Frame Skip point?

Regarding multiple scripting languages: that's not very likely to happen, for many reasons.

 

Everything else sounds good.

 

 

I've only used RPG Maker for 6 months mostly making scripts for other people instead of making my own games .

And if VX ace has a lot of limitations,MV removed a lot of them by giving access to a much bigger part of the code . 

It still lacks features you need to implement yourself but that's a lot better than before

In fact , I would be using only MV if i didn't like Ruby that much compared to Javascript.

To me one missing feature not mentionned before is some ways to keep track of projects versions github style to let multiple people work on a project.

 

 

 

Tho I'm not sure I would use  the new engine ...

To me ideally ,the new engine would be an open-source GUI extension to an already existing open-source 2D engine, (it's easier to do and may guarantee more support)  but I would still stick to RM for the community

 

Yes! I definitely want it to support Git and other version control systems. It would make working with a team so much easier. The tricky part would be integrating it in an easy to understand way for beginners.

[Rikifive 3,411]

By frame skip I mean not forcing the game to render every single frame.

 

If RM starts to lag and the performance drops - it slows down ~ so if you're making something synced to music - it can go off because of a single lag. Frame skip 'skips' these frames and renders let's say every next few frames if the performance drops~ it gets 'sharp' but not makes the gameplay slower.

 

I have no idea how that looks like with all the variables and such though ~ but I know, that games are using that.

For example even in terraria there was a setting, that was allowing you to toggle that (slow-mo / sharp when performance dropped [and terraria is kinda poorly optimized btw])

[Kayzee 4,032]

I agree, no single person could know what the community really wants. That's why I'm asking for input.

I think it's possible to develop a pretty decent idea of the general needs and wishes after talking about it with the community.

It just seems to me that there is always an inherent bias and personal interpretation at play when asking for input. Not everyone is going to notice or care about this thread and not everyone has the same needs. Which doesn't make asking for input useless or anything it's just that, well, with closed source it's still going to be your project, not the community's. For the most part that could be pretty much true regardless of it's open source or not, but I feel it's more likely to be democratized and open to outside ideas if the project it's self is open and can be contributed to by lots of people.

 

I might just be a biased free software hippy, but I really think that a lot of RPG Maker's problems are rooted in the way it is developed and marketed. I just think falling into the same sort of mind set where a project is closed and developed by a small ring of people and then sold as a product is not what the community really needs in the long run. If you do that I think you are just making another RPG Maker competitor that may or may not end up better but will probably end up frustrating a large number of people because of your particular bias.

 

And yeah, I guess open source won't really get around that problem completely, but I would be a lot more interested in a project I can look at and fiddle with the internals of, even if I don't end up doing that. I just feel I can trust it more. It's not really anything to do with you personally, that's just the way I feel about software in general.

 

Also: As a side note, how do you feel about Java? I like it's portability and large library support. I did a few experiments with Java and JRuby for example. I didn't get very far (not much more then putting images on the screen) but I thought combining Java and JRuby might be a pretty cool idea for a larger engine that used Ruby scripting if you are still interested in using Ruby. Also might be worth looking into mruby. Just thought I would share that.

Edited May 28, 2016 by KilloZapit

[♥SOURCE♥ 108]

By frame skip I mean not forcing the game to render every single frame.

 

If RM starts to lag and the performance drops - it slows down ~ so if you're making something synced to music - it can go off because of a single lag. Frame skip 'skips' these frames and renders let's say every next few frames if the performance drops~ it gets 'sharp' but not makes the gameplay slower.

 

I have no idea how that looks like with all the variables and such though ~ but I know, that games are using that.

For example even in terraria there was a setting, that was allowing you to toggle that (slow-mo / sharp when performance dropped [and terraria is kinda poorly optimized btw])

 

Oh, yes. Ace tries to do that. It's pretty common. I thought you meant something different with the "slow-mo mode".

 

 

It just seems to me that there is always an inherent bias and personal interpretation at play when asking for input. Not everyone is going to notice or care about this thread and not everyone has the same needs. Which doesn't make asking for input useless or anything it's just that, well, with closed source it's still going to be your project, not the community's. For the most part that could be pretty much true regardless of it's open source or not, but I feel it's more likely to be democratized and open to outside ideas if the project it's self is open and can be contributed to by lots of people.

 

I might just be a biased free software hippy, but I really think that a lot of RPG Maker's problems are rooted in the way it is developed and marketed. I just think falling into the same sort of mind set where a project is closed and developed by a small ring of people and then sold as a product is not what the community really needs in the long run. If you do that I think you are just making another RPG Maker competitor that may or may not end up better but will probably end up frustrating a large number of people because of your particular bias.

 

And yeah, I guess open source won't really get around that problem completely, but I would be a lot more interested in a project I can look at and fiddle with the internals of, even if I don't end up doing that. I just feel I can trust it more. It's not really anything to do with you personally, that's just the way I feel about software in general.

 

Also: As a side note, how do you feel about Java? I like it's portability and large library support. I did a few experiments with Java and JRuby for example. I didn't get very far (not much more then putting images on the screen) but I thought combining Java and JRuby might be a pretty cool idea for a larger engine that used Ruby scripting if you are still interested in using Ruby. Also might be worth looking into mruby. Just thought I would share that.

 

 

You could still have access to the source code even if the project is not open source, but that's not the only way to allow expansion of the editor as well as the "player". 

 

Java is okay, I really like the JVM and its ecosystem. The player I mentioned in the OP (the one I did with Solistra and Enelvon) uses JRuby.

 

JRuby for scripting would be a pretty good idea: the Truffle + Graal implementation, although not ready yet, looks very promising.

Current JRuby is great, too, but the future Truffle + Graal version makes going with JRuby even more attractive.

Performance is not the only good thing about JRuby: you also have excellent interoperability with Java and its ecosystem out of the box. It's pretty awesome :3

[Kayzee 4,032]

I would just feel more comfortable about the project if it was open is all. Maybe that's my bias talking but that's how I feel. I rather let the community be able to make forks and new versions rather then having any one person control the whole project. In practical terms a project still needs a head of course, but I rather have no one be the "owner". I mean, worst case scenario, what if you go mad with power or suddenly vanish and can't work on the project anymore? Call me paranoid, but I am not unconvinced that that might happen. It happens for a LOT of software projects. It's not that I don't trust you, I just don't trust people.

 

And yeah! JRuby really is ultra cool! It can't import Ruby C extensions though I think, that's it's only weakness. But importing Java classes is just as good! And is the new dev JRuby really that fast?

[♥SOURCE♥ 108]

I don't want to derail the conversation into a "Open Source versus Closed Source development" debate, but: there's a track record of failed "I'm going to build my own RPG Maker with blackjack and hookers" in RM communities. I've seen such projects start and how people want to join and help, and I've seen how they died.

Open Source development is not always better. More hands can be more helpful but they also can be more harmful.

 

Some of those projects are still up in a repository somewhere, and nobody picked them up. I'm talking about projects like Express Game Maker, Advanced RPG Creator, ARGSS, RPG Advanced Editor, etc.

 

What I want to create is not a "slightly better RPG Maker" or an "RPG Maker clone" though, I want to create a new  and more powerful program to make 2D RPGs that doesn't sacrifice ease of use.

It is a big project, and I think it has more chances of eventually being completed if a small and determined team works on it.

 

 

And yeah! JRuby really is ultra cool! It can't import Ruby C extensions though I think, that's it's only weakness. But importing Java classes is just as good! And is the new dev JRuby really that fast?

 

It does seem like it. It's amazing. :3

 

Very High Performance C Extensions for JRuby+Truffle.

 

Here's a link with more information about the JRuby+Truffle project.

[Kayzee 4,032]

I don't want to derail the conversation into a "Open Source versus Closed Source development" debate, but: there's a track record of failed "I'm going to build my own RPG Maker with blackjack and hookers" in RM communities. I've seen such projects start and how people want to join and help, and I've seen how they died.

Open Source development is not always better. More hands can be more helpful but they also can be more harmful.

 

Some of those projects are still up in a repository somewhere, and nobody picked them up. I'm talking about projects like Express Game Maker, Advanced RPG Creator, ARGSS, RPG Advanced Editor, etc.

 

What I want to create is not a "slightly better RPG Maker" or an "RPG Maker clone" though, I want to create a new  and more powerful program to make 2D RPGs that doesn't sacrifice ease of use.

It is a big project, and I think it has more chances of eventually being completed if a small and determined team works on it.

 

Yeah I know there are a lot of failed open source projects out there. Most software projects fail. How many private close source projects have failed and have nothing to show for it at all, not even some code on a git hub somewhere?

 

Also I think that a common misconception about how open source works is that it absolutely requires a bunch of people to cooperatively work on a big project. It doesn't. All it means is that the source is available and most of the time implies it's free to fork and use. I want to be clear that I am not suggesting you take contributions form any random person, though that could be helpful sometimes. I just think the legal framework of open source and/or free software better protects people who choose to use that software, regardless of how it's developed.

 

By all means have a small team! That's the best way to do it. I just suggest allowing others to fiddle with it, even if you don't choose to incorporate their changes, that's all. Or, if you rather, develop it closed and release it open.

 

And I guess I should stop going on about it, but thanks for paying attention to what I have to say.

 

Edit: On another topic how about some interface speculation? I had some thoughts about what the scripting window could be like...

 

How about instead of coping what VX Ace does, it works more like a IDE? Using external files, having a manifest for order, maybe allowing each ruby file have metadata comment tags for the script name, author, requirements, and so on... I donno.

Edited May 29, 2016 by KilloZapit

[♥SOURCE♥ 108]

I'd like that!

 

Yes, I like those ideas. Where would we draw the line, though? IDEs are complex, and although making the script editor feel like an IDE is very tempting, it would also be very time consuming and pretty much a different project. I do like the idea of basing its design on how IDEs work.

 

What I had in mind is something simple:

 

• Syntax highlighting.
• Indentation support.
• Open script files in separate tabs, allowing multiple files to be opened simultaneously.
• Proper organization of the project's scripts, with sub-directory support and stuff.

The above list would be the basics I'd like to include.

 

Additional IDE-like features may be relatively easy to implement using this: JRubyParser.

 

It should also be compatible with dedicated IDEs and code editors, for those who would prefer to code in their favorite program instead.

 

Regarding the script files: yes, metadata would be nice. Not only for the author information and license, but also for compatibility and, as you mentioned: requirements.

 

If scripts also come with GUI plugins for the editor, it might be a good idea to define a format to package both the editor and player scripts/plugns/add-ons. An example of a GUI add-on for the editor would be adding proper "event commands" for the features introduced with a script, to make using custom features a more comfortable experience.

[Tarq 746]

All performance issues and politics aside I think if there's anything that RM could benefit from its better documentation; you shouldn't walk away from a 'help' section more confused than you enter it. RM's current help section is obtuse to navigate, far from comprehensive, and its entirely axiomatic with no thought into how or why. At least these have been my impressions of it.

I'm not asking for a full-on tutorial experience but after spending all that time building your software teaching people how to use it is definitely not something to skimp on.