Help with Mage Class

[Lord Vectra 414]

I was battle testing yesterday and I noticed something. My mage, Leonardo, is too weak for my taste.

 

The stats of all classes are categorized by strength and speed. Here's the order from Strongest/Slowest => Weakest/Fastest

 

Warrior

Battlemage

Assassin

Mage

 

As you see, the mage is the fastest but the weakest. 

 

How do you go about making your mage class?

[+ Takeo212 1,079]

I find mages to be strong, but mainly against enemies opposed to the element they used.

Mages are hard to balance.

 

Mine generally have high MATK, MDEF and fair AGI, but low ATK, DEF and HP.

If the mage is in a physical fight, they are pretty weak since they'll die alot if hit, however to make up for this weakness, I make enemies have weaknessed to the mages magic, such as thunder on a water monster.

 

By balancing enemy elemental weaknesses, you indirectly control your mages power, so their lower stats are worth it if you can deal more dmg to a certain enemy or boss.

 

Giving them a "neutral" elemental atk that is similar in power to your physical hitters main attack is normally how I make them a little stronger too - but at MP cost of course (however, my mage regens a little mp each turn but my mp's balanced to be about 30mp, with low tier magic costing about 3mp each so yea)

 

Point is, your enemies to balance your mage instead of changing your mage directly.

Make enemies weak to magic, but also make some strong against just so your mage isn't OP. i think this helps control the mages.

[Rezanta 373]

Well, it depends on the "mage" in question.

 

Here's a few mage examples of my own:

 

Crystal, an aquatic/Ice dragon, is a mage, in fair honesty, relying on her magic for everything. She can be a physical mage by creating weapons out of the water in the air in the blink of an eye, she can control and fire water/ice projectiles from any amount of water vapor anywhere, or she can be defensive by using the ice as a shield. Her stats tend to almost always favor MATK and ATK, but like Agislash's case, those can be flipped via ice shields. Note that she can also hide herself as a human at anytime, so this also alters her stats slightly. (15-20% average change)

 

Darkyem, a dark mage, focuses on stalling the battle and dealing small to medium spell/physical damage over time. Regardless of what you do, he can shut off any an all spell based abilities anyone can use (both enemies and allies) by using Necromancer's Awakening, and he can inflict Blind, Silence, Def debuffs, and can increase the speed of allies.

 

Zek, who's getting his first spotlight in SDT, is a Shadow Mage. He focuses on raged damage, even though he has some physical attacks. Any of his spells deal better damage however, and he can withstand physical punishment. However, he's easy to fight with magic, so yeah.

 

Now, I know, I know, mages shouldn't be physical, but I like the small touch, only because it allows for some actual creativity in the game. For example, Crystal has many AoE spells that can buff/debuff, cause damage over time, or simply freeze enemies. Darkyem's setups were already mentioned, where Zek inflicts massive damage and uses debuffs to worsen the wound.

[lonequeso 1,921]

There's eleventy billion ways to create a mage. The question you first need to answer is what role does that actor need to fill? If the other three actors are pretty much nailed down, the mage's role should fufill something the party is lacking. Then you give them stats and skills that allow them to be successful in that role.

[Lord Vectra 414]

Well, each class has two choices when it comes to weaponry.

 

Warriors: One-handed and two-handed.

 

Battlemage: Battlestaves and Scythes

 

Assassin: Daggers and Bows

 

Mage: Staves and Wakizashi (a small katana)

 

Wakizashi's for the mages allow the mage to deal physical damage like the warrior. Wakisashi's are weaker than the staff (which I will change) and it's a very combo-maniac weapon. I'm giving the weapon it's own skillset so it won't share the same skills as a sword or dagger.

 

 

Well, it depends on the "mage" in question.

 

Here's a few mage examples of my own:

 

Crystal, an aquatic/Ice dragon, is a mage, in fair honesty, relying on her magic for everything. She can be a physical mage by creating weapons out of the water in the air in the blink of an eye, she can control and fire water/ice projectiles from any amount of water vapor anywhere, or she can be defensive by using the ice as a shield. Her stats tend to almost always favor MATK and ATK, but like Agislash's case, those can be flipped via ice shields. Note that she can also hide herself as a human at anytime, so this also alters her stats slightly. (15-20% average change)

 

Darkyem, a dark mage, focuses on stalling the battle and dealing small to medium spell/physical damage over time. Regardless of what you do, he can shut off any an all spell based abilities anyone can use (both enemies and allies) by using Necromancer's Awakening, and he can inflict Blind, Silence, Def debuffs, and can increase the speed of allies.

 

Zek, who's getting his first spotlight in SDT, is a Shadow Mage. He focuses on raged damage, even though he has some physical attacks. Any of his spells deal better damage however, and he can withstand physical punishment. However, he's easy to fight with magic, so yeah.

 

Now, I know, I know, mages shouldn't be physical, but I like the small touch, only because it allows for some actual creativity in the game. For example, Crystal has many AoE spells that can buff/debuff, cause damage over time, or simply freeze enemies. Darkyem's setups were already mentioned, where Zek inflicts massive damage and uses debuffs to worsen the wound.

I would tell you what type of mage he is and tell you about it but I don't want to spoil it. Though, you have given me a few ideas.

 

I find mages to be strong, but mainly against enemies opposed to the element they used.

Mages are hard to balance.

 

Mine generally have high MATK, MDEF and fair AGI, but low ATK, DEF and HP.

If the mage is in a physical fight, they are pretty weak since they'll die alot if hit, however to make up for this weakness, I make enemies have weaknessed to the mages magic, such as thunder on a water monster.

 

By balancing enemy elemental weaknesses, you indirectly control your mages power, so their lower stats are worth it if you can deal more dmg to a certain enemy or boss.

 

Giving them a "neutral" elemental atk that is similar in power to your physical hitters main attack is normally how I make them a little stronger too - but at MP cost of course (however, my mage regens a little mp each turn but my mp's balanced to be about 30mp, with low tier magic costing about 3mp each so yea)

 

Point is, your enemies to balance your mage instead of changing your mage directly.

Make enemies weak to magic, but also make some strong against just so your mage isn't OP. i think this helps control the mages.

You gave me an idea.

 

Unfortunately, I can't use MAT bc I'm using it for something else. I also can't use the others. That's because Yanfly's element absorb script wasn't working so I had to do some alternative actions which took up the rest of the stats that used to be unused. I'll see if I can make an alternative for that as well

 

 

There's eleventy billion ways to create a mage. The question you first need to answer is what role does that actor need to fill? If the other three actors are pretty much nailed down, the mage's role should fufill something the party is lacking. Then you give them stats and skills that allow them to be successful in that role.

I will take that into consideration. 

 

Thanx for your advice everyone. It is really appreciated.

[+ Asharonapaul 276]

I just make one super class, and use the default class thingy for nationalities... genetics determine the attributes more or less... but then you have skills that modify attributes as well, passively and actively.   hmmmm, I'm obssessed with skills... plan on having 5000 in my game.

[Lord Vectra 414]

I just make one super class, and use the default class thingy for nationalities... genetics determine the attributes more or less... but then you have skills that modify attributes as well, passively and actively.   hmmmm, I'm obssessed with skills... plan on having 5000 in my game.

I'm obsessed with ailments. I currently have 140 of them but I plan to have much more as I get ideas.

[+ Asharonapaul 276]

for some reason I thought you said alignments... I plan on having alignments with deities with world religions, like hindu or first nation religions... the alignments unlock skills specific to those deities.

[Lord Vectra 414]

I have too many Gods to do such a thing (14 Gods). I will have an Alignment System but that's in World of Chaos Armageddon which is 6 games away from now so... yeah.

[+ Asharonapaul 276]

hindu alone has thousands...

[Lord Vectra 414]

It's hard to imagine one putting all those gods in one alignment.

[Guyver 65]

I broke my mages down like this.

 

The base Mage who gains access to the base line spells for most of the elements in my game. 15 usable out of 21 total. Upon reaching level 15 with the base mage class, the player has access to four new classes. The fire mage, lightning mage, ice mage and earth mage.

 

The fire mage specializes in fire and arcane magic.They're purely offensive, they'll incinerate anything in their path.

The lightning mage specializes in thunder and wind magic. These mages focus on inflicting various status effects while dealing damage. Their tornado skills can suck the breath right out of the enemy, and their lightning can leave enemies stunned.

The ice mage specializes in ice and water magic. This is a supportive type mage, focusing on doing damage while supporting allies and reducing damage taken by the party.

The earth mage focuses on earth and corrosive type magic. This is a defensive mage, shielding allies with stone while corroding the enemy armor and weakening them for physical attacks.

 

After reaching level 25 with all four of the sub classes for mage, the player will gain access to the Archmage who can use all of the elements available to the other mages with higher tiered skills. The base mage will get skills relating to all four sub classes as well, like Ice Barrier that reduces magic attack while increasing def/mdf or corroding rains that reduce armor to a lesser extent.

 

I also have the Scholar, who gains access to several schools of magic early, but later define themselves on the battlefield by offering various buffs/debuffs no other classes have available. I have a few other mage classes as well but I can leave those for another post if you want to hear about them.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Guyver

[Lord Vectra 414]

My mage does hav a specialization but he must wait until he is level 20. Same for all the other characters.

[lonequeso 1,921]

Specializations are a good way to go about it. You can make several versions of one class and let the player decide what they want.

[Rezanta 373]

Specializations are a good way to go about it. You can make several versions of one class and let the player decide what they want.

As lone stated here, you can easily allow multiple choices. A few good ideasto study to do so could come from Dragon Quest, Golden Sun (although that's mainly Djinns), and Elderscroll games.

[HeckHound 61]

You could have the Mage where their overall battle ability gets stronger as the battle progresses.

 

For example, MP is generated over the course of the fight, instead of being able to start off with full mana. Maybe their basic attack with their wakizashi generates additional mana per turn. Maybe there's Mage-specific equipment that increases the amount of mana generated per turn etc.

 

Then, as your mana increases, your other stats also get a boost, certain spells get more powerful etc:

 

* Arcane Missile consumes x% of your current MP but does damage based on your current mana.

* Arcane Shield consumes 100% of your stored mana, but provides the party with a variety of buffs with X potency (for example, increase stats and health regen 1% for every 5% mana consumed) / for X turns (1 turn per 20%) based on the mana consumed. 

* Mana Burn consumes 50% of your current mana, but also burns the target's mana and deals damage based on the amount of mana burnt.

* Time Lock consumes 100% of your current mana but freezes enemies in place for x turns based on mana consumed.

 

Then you have Elemental spells, where certain skills provide a buff that increases the damage of that type of skill / applies additional effects to your next skill. For example, Gather Fire provides you with X stacks of [imbued with Fire] buff, which in turn increases a stat associated with it (for example, ATK) by 1% per stack, as well as fire skills.

 

On top of that, Fire Arrow now hits all targets instead of one, while Water Arrow also applies Blind to the target, consuming one stack of buff.

 

I feel this would tie in with the Mage being a fast, combo-centric character and allowing the Mage to be powerful, but not immediately.

[Lord Vectra 414]

You could have the Mage where their overall battle ability gets stronger as the battle progresses.

 

For example, MP is generated over the course of the fight, instead of being able to start off with full mana. Maybe their basic attack with their wakizashi generates additional mana per turn. Maybe there's Mage-specific equipment that increases the amount of mana generated per turn etc.

 

Then, as your mana increases, your other stats also get a boost, certain spells get more powerful etc:

 

* Arcane Missile consumes x% of your current MP but does damage based on your current mana.

* Arcane Shield consumes 100% of your stored mana, but provides the party with a variety of buffs with X potency (for example, increase stats and health regen 1% for every 5% mana consumed) / for X turns (1 turn per 20%) based on the mana consumed. 

* Mana Burn consumes 50% of your current mana, but also burns the target's mana and deals damage based on the amount of mana burnt.

* Time Lock consumes 100% of your current mana but freezes enemies in place for x turns based on mana consumed.

 

Then you have Elemental spells, where certain skills provide a buff that increases the damage of that type of skill / applies additional effects to your next skill. For example, Gather Fire provides you with X stacks of [imbued with Fire] buff, which in turn increases a stat associated with it (for example, ATK) by 1% per stack, as well as fire skills.

 

On top of that, Fire Arrow now hits all targets instead of one, while Water Arrow also applies Blind to the target, consuming one stack of buff.

 

I feel this would tie in with the Mage being a fast, combo-centric character and allowing the Mage to be powerful, but not immediately.

That would work for a different type of mage but not the type Leo is (the mage in my current project). All you have mentioned would fall under Quoon Magic which is spirit magic and is not a playable element until World of Chaos III.  And Mana Burn would fall under Battlemage.

 

I will use these ideas (for future games in the series); I never thought of a skill mechanic such as that. Well, as far as buffs and ailments.

 

I did add a few spells to help:

Water Wall: All allies are immune to all elements but Earth, Darkness, and Holy (Physical is not included but you are not immune to it). I might change it where Earth is the only exception. Hmmm, decisions.

 

[subclass name]: Faded [class name]: Become a [class name] for 5 turns.

 

I might add a "disintegrate" spell which lowers my enemy's DEF (if armor) or ATK (if weapon).

 

To differentiate between Staves and Wakizashi's, I plan to make the staff normal attack an area attack and the Wakizashi is more single-target. Staves are going to increase Magical Damage resistance by 20% and Wakishasi's will resist Physical damage by 40%. Why 40? It'll decrease magical resistance by 20% which negates the 20% bonus you get from mage hat/robes. Thus, your trading magic resistance for physical resistance. You can change equip during battle so I'd figure it'd be a good thing. What do you think?

 

I think I'm going to make him play as a support and then add in offensive spells later on (his subclass).

[Rezanta 373]

I did add a few spells to help:

Water Wall: All allies are immune to all elements but Earth, Darkness, and Holy (Physical is not included but you are not immune to it). I might change it where Earth is the only exception. Hmmm, decisions.

 

I think of a water shield as in blocking physical ranged attacks, like arrows and spears.

 

[subclass name]: Faded [class name]: Become a [class name] for 5 turns.

Hmm, a Mage that acts kind of like a Ditto. Nice touch. :3

 

I might add a "disintegrate" spell which lowers my enemy's DEF (if armor) or ATK (if weapon).

 

To differentiate between Staves and Wakizashi's, I plan to make the staff normal attack an area attack and the Wakizashi is more single-target. Staves are going to increase Magical Damage resistance by 20% and Wakishasi's will resist Physical damage by 40%. Why 40? It'll decrease magical resistance by 20% which negates the 20% bonus you get from mage hat/robes. Thus, your trading magic resistance for physical resistance. You can change equip during battle so I'd figure it'd be a good thing. What do you think?

 

Well, to balance the two, shouldn't the staves reduce physical resistance to a degree?

 

I think I'm going to make him play as a support and then add in offensive spells later on (his subclass).

I gave my thoughts in the quote, but if Leo's to play support, will he act as a White Mage?

[Lord Vectra 414]

I think of a water shield as in blocking physical ranged attacks, like arrows and spears.

It used to have 0% MDR but I changed it; I might change it back. Hmmmmm, decisions. Ranged attacks and Magical Attacks are seen as the same thing.

 

Well, to balance the two, shouldn't the staves reduce physical resistance to a degree?

You must account the armor the mage wears. Any mage robe/hate gives 20% resistance to magic w/ full mage armor (robe and hat).  The staff gives you an additional 20% magic resistance. If you were to use a Wakizashi, it cancels out the armor's magic resistance and replaces it with physical resistance of 40%. 20 it accommodate for the lost MDR and the other 20 for itself.

 

Now that I've said it, it does seem a bit flawed. I'll think of something. hmmmm, decisions.

 

I gave my thoughts in the quote, but if Leo's to play support, will he act as a White Mage? 

Yes. He can't heal HP (that's the Templar's job) but he does recover MP. He plays as Black and White once he reaches lvl 20 because his subclass is fully black magic.

 

I almost forgot                , I probably should add summons to his list of spells.

[ashm 12]

Mage is the most versatile class.

You need a damage dealer, just build him around offensive spell.

You need spam enemy with debuff while buffing allies, name it. 

Or you need to heal ? Mage can learn restorative spell too.

 

Since you already have battlemage, just look what role that lack from your party.

Protective, support and healer i think.

[Lord Vectra 414]

Mage is the most versatile class.

You need a damage dealer, just build him around offensive spell.

You need spam enemy with debuff while buffing allies, name it. 

Or you need to heal ? Mage can learn restorative spell too.

 

Since you already have battlemage, just look what role that lack from your party.

Protective, support and healer i think.

Protective: Templar (and subclass)

 

Support: The Assassin (and subclass), the Mage(and Subclass), and Battlemage's Subclass

 

Healer: Templar(HP and Reviver), Mage(MP)

 

Damager: Battlemage(and subclass), Templar, and Mage's Subclass