VN Form Progression

[Tarq 746]

Most genres have progressed or have the capacity to progess as a form and I'd like to discuss whether VN's form is inherently inhibitive in this regard. I think the best way to preface this discussion is to actually define 'form':

 

Form is sort of like a framework; its the underlying rules that structures the content. To give an example, poetic form would be things like the rhyme scheme, the metre, the number of lines per stanza, the number of stanzas even.

 

Most games alter mechanics sufficiently to differentiate between them, heck, most sequels even. VN's, on the other hand, are a pretty flat experience. Some VN's let you make one decision every couple of hours and that's about it for gameplay. This is the basis for most of the debate against even considering VN's as 'games'.

 

Since there was little way to progress as a form via gameplay the more advanced VN's started to add voice-acting and short animations but these seem counter-intuitive to the idea that these games are 'novels'; more so if these features are developed upon further or become uniform for the genre. VN's would become more comparable to films.

 

 

So, here, I'd like all you wonderful game developers to gather around and discuss whether it is possible to improve this poor genre and the means to do so

[Yuugami 252]

So I'm going to be speaking as someone whose quite familiar with VNs as a medium, having played a number of them extensively - I have also worked on some VNs of my own, as far as writing scenarios are concerned, and am familiar with the Ren'Py engine. I want to say that I was also a part of Katawa Shoujo, but the most of my involvement in that was being part of the discussion thread that eventually lead to Katawa Shoujo.

 

Now, the thing about VNs is that even with what you mention, Tarq, I'm of the opinion that adding more elements such as voice acting and animations can only a good thing to the medium. The thing is that VNs will never resemble films unless they remove the reading portion of the genre completely - it's more or less better to see them as "motion light novels" or the bridge between anime and manga. From the very beginning, VNs were always supposed to invoke the feeling of playing a "choose your own adventure" book. 

 

As for improving VNs in general, that's tough. The genre is more or less saturated with some really trashy stuff, especially since it's one of the ways to sell an adult game. That being said, you get some pretty cool stories like Kara no Shoujo or Hanachirasu. The point is that the quality of the VN is going to be about how the narrative is handled, and the subject matter. You can have plenty of "classic" VNs, in the form of Clannad, Tsukihime, and I guess Steins;Gate will probably join their ranks soon enough. Those are the sorts of story that gets remembered, although getting an anime adaptation does seem to help quite a bit.

 

There's also VNs with more gameplay, like Sengoku Rance or Monster Girl Quest - more strategy/RPG-based stuff is generally very doable, you could call it a more text heavy version of Fire Emblem, if you wish. As long as traveling between locations, and the journey in between isn't too important, that could work in a VN format. The fact of the matter is that the genre itself is actually very flexible - it's just a matter of application.

[Kayzee 4,033]

Well, I kinda like the idea of having embedded VN segments to tell the story of a game at least, like how some fighting games have their story modes be presented as a visual novel between fights (BlazBlue and Persona 4: Arena most notably I think). I think fighting games in particular are a pretty good fit for it, but just about any genre would be possible to do like that. I generally think computer software actually is a pretty poor pure storytelling medium for various reasons, but I kinda thing that if you are gonna try and tell a story as one anyway, the VN format is actually a great way to do it. The VN-style interface and presentation is minimal but very polished and well understood, and if offers enough opportunities for interaction and choice to be something a bit more interesting then static media.
 
If you think about it, the difference between a VN and some of the other popular more esoteric narrative-driven works that are all the buzz these days,such as what are often called "Walking Simulators" or quite a few indie RPG Maker games, can almost be purely a matter of presentation and interface. Some may say this is a far better way to do that kind of story telling. I guess it makes a lot of difference in people's minds to actually walk around an environment, even if the meaningful choices you can make are still pretty small or non-existent. But these works, I think, are harder to get into for me because you always have to be interacting with them but most of these interactions mean nothing and it becomes more of a chore. The VN format is at least uncomplicated by excessive meaningless interactions most of the time.
 
Me though? I am more of a simulationist at heart and rather interact with something where I can tell my own story by interacting with it rather then have it tell me a story while interacting with it. I like a few VNs here and there, but to me there isn't really that much of a difference from static media like writing or video that makes the hassle of interactivity worth it most of the time, even if the story is a branching one. To me a branching story is just giving you the option to read pages out of order, and you can technically do that with any story. I don't think VNs are bad for what they do though.
 
I guess if I had to suggest one thing VNs kinda needs, it's a way to allow implementation and interface independence. Think about writing or video. It can be commonly shared across many devices, stored in formats that are recognized by many programs, interacted with with different interfaces, created and edited fairly easily with many different programs, and so on. Because writing and video are pure portable data, they can do all these things where VNs can not. I think if VNs are going to grow as an art form, creators have to come up with standard formats and create open player formats on many devices. Generally this means they become less like games and more like actual novels in most cases, but with an expressive enough macro language this need not mean they are completely free of gameplay or interesting features. Eventually, this would mean most VN are no longer treated as software but as data and played with open or commercial software dedicated to playing them. This isn't all that farfetched either, I believe it has been attempted before, Ren'Py might be sort of going in that direction a bit. Heck maybe all gaming will eventually go in that direction. We will see. :3

[Yuugami 252]

Well, I kinda like the idea of having embedded VN segments to tell the story of a game at least, like how some fighting games have their story modes be presented as a visual novel between fights (BlazBlue and Persona 4: Arena most notably I think). I think fighting games in particular are a pretty good fit for it, but just about any genre would be possible to do like that. I generally think computer software actually is a pretty poor pure storytelling medium for various reasons, but I kinda thing that if you are gonna try and tell a story as one anyway, the VN format is actually a great way to do it. The VN-style interface and presentation is minimal but very polished and well understood, and if offers enough opportunities for interaction and choice to be something a bit more interesting then static media.

 

 

You forgot the OG Melty Blood, as did I until I saw your post.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Yuugami