Making Non-magical Characters Valuable members of the Team

[xenre 1]

In addition to each character's unique abilities, I’m planning to have skills and spells learnable from items. For very important plot reasons, two of my 6-12 characters won’t be able to do any magic. How would you make them viable party members? 

 

In a system where everyone else can learn healing and elemental damage spells, what would you do to make a character who can't something players would want to keep in the party, given the choice?

 

 

[Piyan Glupak 3]

It seems to me that the RTP skills (which I am using for my first project) make magic use much more effective than physical attack, and magic users more fun to play because they have a wider range of skills.  In the project that I am planning at the moment, I am considering slightly reducing the effectiveness of spells as compared to the (Ace) RTP, making them do a little less for the number of magic point cost.    When I do enemies, I intend to do some with high resistance to some or all elements (except 'Physical').

 

Availability of potions for healing, removing states reviving etc. might reduce the necessity of healing skills.

 

Concerning physical attacks, I am considering the default formulae with the aim of beefing up the physical attacks a little.  The RTP gives the default physical and mixed classes about 5 special skills.  A few more per non-magic using class might make using them more interesting and effective.  They don't all have to do the same kind of thing.

 

One possibility that I probably won't use for the new game is to have weapons that need repair from time.  It seems reasonable to me to have the non-magic users able to do minor repairs, although major repairs might need a visit to a specialist NPC.  This assumes that your non-magic users are trained and experienced physical weapon users.  I have a feeling that there is an (MV) plugin for wear and tear on equipment.  (I have been looking at a lot of Yanfly's stuff lately, so it could be worth searching their plugins or scripts.)

[+ Takeo212 1,079]

Maybe if one of the non-magic users can be a cover/tank. Most magical users avoid heavy armour due to restrictions and sometimes combustion (a fire mage wearing a heavy plate armour may result in an implode or over heating for example). If you use this same logic, then having one of the non-magic users have abilities such as taunt, cover and guard may help. Essentially, they would protect your mages who would generically have low DEF and HP. It would make that character an incentive to have considering they can prevent your attackers from actually dying.

 

Another one can be an alchemist type class. If they can't use magic, why not make them use potions and items instead? They can't use "Cure"? Then throw a powered up potion at an ally instead. If you give this character the EX-Paramater for Pharmacology they can become the healer through items. On top of that, they can use attack items. Bombs, grenades can deal fire damage. Slime Oil can cost slow/ATB decrease, Sticky Oil can increase an enemies vulnerability to fire so mages can use fire on him for increased damaged.

 

Essentially, if they can't use magic, there are other means to make them viable. One tank non-magic user + a saboteur non-magic user + a power elementalist = a winning team essentially.

 

Just a couple ideas anyway.

[Tarq 746]

OP, when you say they cant use magic I assume you're saying they can't use any form of active ability? (Eg. they can't steal or scan or so on) This could still leave passives, such as increased experience, loot, stats, etc.from them being in the party.

One thing that I quite like the idea of (but probably wont work since you already have plot tied in) is perhaps that party member is useless and the party's objective is protect them with their death being an instant game over.

 

Frankly, if you're balancing your mages correctly then at least some sort of physical attacker is necessary to balance out the MP costs (physical attacks wreck mooks for free which conserves your ether equivalents) and for survivability (mages are typically glass cannons; their squishiness accounts for their dps). It might be less immediately exciting but a 'boring' party is more fun than losing (or potentially softlocked).

[lonequeso 1,921]

There's a lot of ways to make non magical skills. The simplest is just physical attacks and buffs. What route you go depends on what the other character's strengths are. Wherever the others characters are lacking in stats, the non magic user should be among their highest. There's nothing wrong with making a generic warrior or fighter class. If you want to get a bit more creative there's the Alchemist mentioned above. Engineer would be a good fit too. it's the same concept as the Alchemist only science-y. 

 

Final Fantasy 7 had a guy who threw balls at people. You could always steal that =p. Let's see... what other fun classes are there...

 

• Juggler
• Thief/rouge
• Archer/ranger/sniper
• Bard 
• Pirate
• Ninja
• Blackbelt
• Monk
• Drunken Master
• etc,etc,etc

There's a gajillion ways to make a non-magic character. Find a class and skill set that suits the character's personality. Then begin creating the skills the same way. All the while, make sure the stats skills, and equipment balance with the other characters. 

 

Don't forget about the possibility of field skills. Maybe this character is adapt at picking locks or the only one who can craft items. There are other ways to build value outside of fighting.

 

I have use weapons that grant special skills in my game too. For me, they are skills that use the TP meter and cannot be permanently learned. I like them because it gives the player more flexibility on what skills to give their party.

[xenre 1]

Thank you all. This was very helpful, especially the taunt/cover/guard combination, the class suggestions and the passive skill suggestions.

 

@ Boring Old Tarq

I hadn’t meant that they can’t use any active skills at all, but it does actually help to think of it that way. I want the lack of magic to be impactful, but not detrimental to the character. I won’t be giving them damaging abilities or active healing, although boosting the potency of items is an option.

[Rio Cortez 3]

@xenre

I don't like narrowing my characters to a 1, or even 2 dimensional box. Each character has 1 specialty, and maybe 1 or 2 things they are good at. I limit my characters based on equips and naturally acquired skills and magic (from lvls or skill trees). Then I add stuff like skill books, which allow you to teach any character the corresponding skill. Using these extra skills, I can teach my Knight magic, or my mage melee skills. In addition to that, I have rare Attribute buff items I use that allow you to increase Actor attributes, like Attack, Magic Attack, etc. So very slowly, over time, you can customize and tune Actor builds. 

 

You should always balance your game to prevent any character from being altogether useless, objectively speaking. Make enemies who are immune to magic, or immune to physical, to punish anyone who stacks a party with meatshields or spellcasters. Create enemy skills that drain MP, block spell casting, reflect properties both physical and magical.

 

Aside from that, give characters unique skills. Let's say Actor A & B are both mages, they both have the same array of generic fire spells. Copy that list of spells and clone them. Now fine tune each spell to reflect that character. Maybe B costs less MP to cast, but the damage isn't as good. Maybe Actor A has a special kind of magic. Fire spells have X% chance of causing Burn effect on enemies similar to poison, Ice can cause Freeze, Thunder can cause Paralysis, etc. Wind or earth could have small chance of blowing out of battle, or burying (instant death). This gives your spell casters more depth.

 

A better example of diversifying your mages. Let's say you have 4 mages. 1 specializes in Fire, 1 in Ice, 1 in Dark, and 1 in Holy, as an example. Rather than just take that 1 generic spell tree and give the fire mage all the fire with a few weak spells from another school, why not make them all skilled mages, but give them each some custom spells of their own. When it comes to Dark, Mage #4 has their own unique spells, stronger than any other dark spell in the game. That's their forte, let it show. This way you break down the rankings of value EVEN MORE. Because you got 3 mages, but this ones if better if we need fire spells, and this one has a ton of freaky, useful effect spells that I love, even though offensively they lack, and this one is better if we need dark spells. Generic mages with generic spells against generic enemies are the issue.

 

Also, don't be generic to a fault. Look at and think about EVERY enemy. Assign some form of elemental alignment to them (light or dark work great for humanoids). Now if you hit a Golem or robot with a Fireball, it's probably not doing 500 damage... It probably wouldn't do 5. Think about that, another way to put that leash around your Mages, and force a more tactical approach to play and party management. Spells shouldn't be just doing an average level of damage, so you slip into a routine where you "Fire 2" everything until you find that 1 fire-based enemy you gotta switch to Ice 2 for. Make spell selection based on enemies a present aspect of being a spellcaster. Give that variety of spells a grander purpose, xenre. The game I'm working on now, the mage class will be a specialty, it will require knowing A) Your character & their spells, B ) the enemy you're currently facing. You won't be able to pick a Fav Spell and mash it for 100+ hours. (As a great example of how this will effect play logically after you've gotten used to it, there may be times the only hing a mage can do is heal if possible or attack. Sometimes when encountering new enemies, you may have to cast the worst spells on them to see how they react. If you cast Omega Death Fire 3, it could reflect damage on all party members and half kill you 1 turn. My mage class will be an art form.)

 

Physical-based characters can still have a lot of great uses. Use skills and abilities to give them unique and useful tools, and you can also use their EQUIPMENT as something to make them even more valuable. Items can have special properties too that set your warrior-types apart from your spellcasters. It also helps to have 1 or more physical-based characters who's skills, or most/certain skills, cost NO MP, so by comparison to an MP slave, they are good to have around.

 

 

Something else to throw in here. Use your plot to your advantage too. A times, when possible, split your party up into smaller groups that cannot be changed. Pair up combos that you know will highlight character strengths, and weaknesses. Use this to each your players how to use your characters together. How when your mage is lacking and vulnerable, your warrior will carry them, and vice versa. Remember to use the monsters in order to achieve this. Lots of monsters with tricky properties like damage immunity are great for keeping players on their toes, and creating a situation where mages and warriors are needed at all times.

 

 

If you make a game where it's only logical and efficient to stack mages, you have a serious problem.

 

 

 

 

tl;dr: Generic mages with generic spells against generic enemies are the issue here. Spice up your game dynamics.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Rio Cortez

[Veethree 11]

If all the non-magic characters can do is attack, then make their "Attack" the most fun and effective Attack in the game. Maybe give them multiple hits, or status procs, or maybe even their own meter and combat mechanics. In Devil Survivor 2, there's an entire build strategy that focuses on enhancing the "Normal Attack" command!

[Kayzee 4,032]

Reminds me of Gustave XIII from SaGa Frontier 2. He was a prince that was disinherited because he couldn't channel magic at all for reasons that I don't think are ever fully explained, and in the world of SaGa Frontier 2 that made him a social outcast since most everyone and everything can channel some magic. But he turned out to be one of the most amazingly powerful swordsman in the history of the setting and is a beast in gameplay terms. Partly because focusing entirely on physical attacks allows him to train his sword skills to ridiculous levels, and party because steel in the setting blocks magic and most everyone else uses magical wood, stone, or bone weapons and armor while Gustave forges himself a ridiculously powerful steel sword and loads up with as much steel armor as he can.

[Rezanta 373]

Non-magical members in a party are a interesting twist to the game. In my current project, I have a gunsman, whom of which is just a human. You're fighting demons, dragons, spell casters, magical creatures from Scalvose, etc, etc... His stats are balanced to keep him up with the rest, but obviously magic is his weakness, thus he offsets it with using his equipment via logic.

 

Wind damage a little high? Wear something that keeps you from being blown off course, like a heavy jacket.

Electricity magic a problem? Wear rubber now, for $4.99! Shipping and handling not included.

So on so forth.

 

This is how I balanced my non-magic based character Drake. Another example is my gambler Lek, albeit poor. He studies alchemy and the sorts to know how to use runes, which cause magic to happen, but otherwise he only has his own humanistic strength to relay on. I hope this helps you some in a way to balance them.

 

Another balancing example, while not dealing with magic persay, is the patches used in DOTA 2.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Rezanta

[Lord Vectra 414]

Non-magical people can have great abilities. Here are some examples in my project:

Juggernaut Warrior Skills
Juggernaut Force: Raise CRI rate by 30% for 3 turns. Raise ATK for 5 turns.

Clean Cut: If critical, the victim will die in one turn unless enemy isn't killable this easily. Otherwise, "instinct" is inflicted on user.

Note: "Instinct" is a state that allows you to do two actions the following turn only.

Assassin Skills

Elude Whirlwind Striker

Activating this grants +30% evasion. Gain "Whirlwind 

Strike" skill (0 MP cost): Attacks 3 enemies. 

Whirlwind Strike

Just as powerful as normal attack, but attacks 3

random targets; can attack the same target twice. Lasts for 3 turns.

Elite Warrior Skills

Assault Guardian

15% chance to do two actions in one turn and gaurd

low-HP allies from magical/ranged attacks. Lasts 4 turns.

Forest Knight Skills

Knights: Disarm

40% chance to disarm opponent

 

Knights: Backwards Power ATK

100% chance to make opponent fall

 

Hopefully, these gave you some ideas for your own non-magical people.