Nescessity for Dialogue?

[+ Chaosian 617]

Hey folks, long time no see- hope everyone is still holding up well.

I'm currently working on a non-RPG Maker project, but I figured the principles still applied and I figured why not ask the people here at a community I respect.

 

The gist of the matter is that, as I near the end of pre-production for the game, I'm wondering about the necessity of dialogue as a vehicle for the game's narrative. A number of games seem to get away with minimalist narratives, and I'm wondering as to what people's thoughts on that sort of thing are?

 

I'd rather not share details of the story in question I'm working on, but one issue I'm running up against is conveying complexity. The story itself is about as complex as what you might find in an old Castlevania or classic Zelda game - and I'm wondering if even that is too much to attempt to convey without a single text-box. How much is going to be sacrificed? Characterization, motivation, plot twists?

 

I like the idea of having a cryptic story that takes a lot of guess-work to properly interpret, or one that gives a distant and alienating feel to it- but I'm not sold on the idea myself.

 

 

ADDENDUM:
Any additional thoughts on minimalist narratives such as the film Angel's Egg (1 hour film, entire script here)?

How about incomprehensible dialogue like that of Ico?

Edited June 23, 2017 by Chaosian

[Lord Vectra 414]

Great dialogue should be the go-to
You may get away with minimum dialogue, but if you look at any sequel. People, more often than not, will say the game with the best dialogue is the best (which sadly, tends to be the 1st of the sequel).
 

"I like the idea of having a cryptic story that takes a lot of guess-work to properly interpret, or one that gives a distant and alienating feel to it"

Will only work if part of the story is mysterious. For example, Fallout 3, and in case you don't know, I'll give you the gist of it without giving spoilers.

You play as a person whose father has disappeared and you go through the entire game trying to find him, and each time you get an answer that may lead you closer to him, it only makes you have more questions. Condemned does that when you are framed and you're trying to find the druglord (I'm assuming; didn't finish the game yet) that did all of the bad stuff. Fallout 4 (barely in it) does the same thing; I won't say anything about it, but its similar but a little more emotional than Fallout 3.

How much is going to be sacrificed? Characterization, motivation, plot twists?

I don't exactly understand. Are you saying these might be sacrifice with bad dialogue or good dialogue?

I'm going to say the first one. If the dialogue is bad and if it is not compensated, then motivation will be sacrificed. If your game is as complex as you're saying it, depending on the complexity, their motivation may drop. Characterization is less likely to happen because you won't understand the character; plot twists don't even happen if the player doesn't know what's going on.

You don't want to sacrifice any of those because it's possible to have a lil below par dialogue and still keep all 3 satisfied and the gamer satisfied. Some will complain about dialogue, but u can't please everybody.

Final Verdict

On a rate of 1 - 10, I'll give it a 7.5
It is not needed as long as you have things to compensate for it (story-wise). Personally, amazing combat mechanics does not make up for bad dialogue, so try to avoid creating that scale.

[lonequeso 1,921]

It's not an exact science (or science at all). Ultimately what it boils down to is how complex and how important the story is. Simple stories can have little or even no dialogue. 

Look at Super Mario Bros. "Sorry, Mario. The princess is in another castle." Epic storytelling! 

 

If the story is about as complex of an old Castlevania of LoZ game, then that's probably about how much dialogue you should have. It's a good baseline. If you think it could work with less take some stuff out and see what happens. If you feel it's too vague, add more stuff. It will be touch-and-go for a bit until you find the right balance. 

[ECG Wolf 36]

While I wouldn't say it's necessary as a driver for narrative, dialogue is by far the easiest to do and can still be very effective as a tool, and so that is why the vast majority of games out there use dialogue to drive the story.

 

Other options to using dialogue is relying on visuals to convey the story or using game mechanics as the narrative.  Of the three I'd consider narrative game mechanics to be by far the most spectacular when done right, though it becomes much more difficult to pull off the more complex the story becomes.

[Cookie Ninja 374]

Zero text might be hard (not undoable). Artwork and gameplay can speak volumes. I've always been a massive supporter of mechanics as a story amplifier, never thought of it as the only plot device. Artwork and mechanics are extremely powerful tools, they are efficient in setting up the emotional/mental state of the player. But without a few guiding words here and there everything will be left to interpretation, a guessing game if you will, no pun intended. The question I'm asking is how important the narrative actually is. In many games the narrative is of no consequence and letting everybody making up their own mind on what is going on is perfectly fine.

 

Summary: Are you telling a story or selling an experience?

• Story. Then you probably won't be able to get away without a single line. We (as players) need some kind of base to build the story upon.
   
• Experience. Then don't sweat it, you can get damn far with the 'feel' of the game alone. Look at Journey, wasn't trying to tell a complex story and the details were left to each of us to fill in. Almost no words needed, the game will stay with me for a long time.

Just one ninjas' opinion on the matter

[+ Chaosian 617]

Thanks for the opinions guys, I have a lot to think about.

 

Any additional thoughts on minimalist narratives such as the film Angel's Egg (1 hour film, entire script here)?

How about incomprehensible dialogue like that of Ico?

[lianderson 122]

Are you going for a message, experience, or both?

[+ Chaosian 617]

Are you going for a message, experience, or both?

 

The experience is more what matters - there isn't a big moral or political theme to be told.

 

That said, it would be nice to be able to convey some more complex thoughts such as the significance of a character's garments - so in that way, dialogue helps convey messages.

[lianderson 122]

In that case, minimal dialogue will work best for you.

[Kayzee 4,033]

There have been plenty of games and other media before that tell stories without any dialogue at all. It's not really that uncommon of a thing. Focusing on visual storytelling and background details can do wonders. For example, besides the intro which mostly is a recap of the previous games, Super Metroid didn't have any story dialogue at all, but it still told a impactful story if a simple one. A RPG example is Live-a-Live's caveman chapter, in which characters use visual bubbles and body language to communicate, though that might be cheating. And of course the before mentioned Journey, which does tell a story even if it's largely in the background. Yume Nikki is a better example of a game that's more of an 'experence' then a story. There have been numerous comics that have done it, and more then a few animated shorts.

 

Personally though? While deliberately going without dialogue can create a special sort of atmosphere, I am not sure how necessary it is to restrict yourself like that. We could look at Dark Souls, and how most of the dialogue is softly spoken and subtitled in a way that it sounds far away. Ico and Shadow of the Colossus are other examples with minimal dialogue peppered in which doesn't really ruin the experience. And of course we have plenty of text adventures that are basically all dialogue that offer that sort of feel.

 

In the end, dialogue, like most things in storytelling/design, is a tool. You can use it or not as you wish. Sometimes the tool dosn't fit the project, sometimes it does. It's up to you.

Edited June 24, 2017 by KilloZapit