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Using TP as a third vital meter...

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In my latest game project, I've decided to use TP as a third vital meter.

You know the deal: If your HP depletes to zero, you're done, MP, no more magic/skills/whatever.

 

But TP is by default a safe thing. Not in my game. If TP goes to zero in my game, it's almost worse than a Knockdown (death status), because that character gets hit with a nasty status ailment that weakens their every ability, and is difficult to recover from. Also, every action that requires movement (attacking/casting magic/etcetera), will deplete TP, or in my game, it's EP, Endurance Points. If you don't have enough Endurance, you may as well wait, or defend. Also, some equipment will make actions cost more Endurance, some less. The idea is that you want to end battles quickly, but not so quickly that fatigue sets in before the next battle. I've always thought this was a good mechanic to have, but maybe not everyone thinks so.

 

I appreciate all constructive thoughts on this. Let us discuss with full hearts and open minds.

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I think I personally would rather just script up a whole new meter, but of course not all of us have that option. I was planning on using TP for something else (as a sort of 'limit break' meter), but I actually do something similar in my game to what you are doing by implementing a food meter. The meter slowly drains as you do stuff and if it becomes empty you are hit with a hunger status effect that majorly effects your stats and disables the normal auto regen all battlers have (which is pretty important as it's your most reliable healing option, healing potions exist but you can't tell what a potion will do unless it's identified and chugging unidentified potions can be risky). Hehe, in some ways I am more merciful about it then lots of roguelikes since you dosn't actually take damage over time if your food meter is empty. I may change that sometime in the future but, for now I think it works well.

 

Of course what you are doing is not quite the same, but it serves a kind of similar function. I always liked the idea of some kind of stamina and/or hunger system myself. I think it makes things more interesting if you need some kind of fuel for most of the things you do and have to pace yourself and manage your tiredness/hunger. Well, as long as you don't too far. Some roguelikes I have played have their food meter drain way way to quick to be fun. My policy is that it's something that should be there, but should be in the background most of the time and you only have to really worry about it every once and a while rather then all the time.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Kayzee said:

I think I personally would rather just script up a whole new meter, but of course not all of us have that option.

 

If I knew how, I absolutely would. I mean, I could possibly figure that out, but that would take from my project. Since I'm basically flying solo on this, gotta focus on the game and not trying to make some function I may/may not need from scratch. Since I am working with an engine, that's something I can do.

 

10 hours ago, Kayzee said:

...food/hunger meter

 

Yeah, I thought of that too, but I'm planning on having a set of items be used just for restoring Endurance outside of battle, or boosting it, making Endurance be a multi-purpose meter.

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I am surprised you haven't tried doing something with events and variables really, though it might be a pain to do it that way. TP works well enough for it anyway. You know, I was  just thinking the other day that TP could also work as a kind of 'stress' meter. I mean, you usually gain tp through stressful things like getting hit right? Why not have gaining TP kinda be a bad thing and if you max it out you get nasty effects? Yeah not the same thing, sounds like something from Darkest Dungeon really.

 

I am kind of confused about what you think the difference between 'hunger' and 'endurance' in this context though. I mean, isn't food is a set of items that are used used just for restoring/boosting a meter outside of battle? How is endurance a multi-purpose meter while hunger is not? Semantically I still do agree that 'endurance' or 'stamina' fits better with how you are actually using the meter though. It seems like you are much more interested in short term tactical play with this rather then long term resource management. In my case with hunger I am more interested in longer term resource management. Doing both is always possible though! I would think about using some kind of stamina system as well, but I think my game has enough short term tactical variety as it is right now.

 

Oh man, I am suddenly reminded of that naughty breeding game I was playing a while ago and how it used 'lust' in battle. It had a surprisingly deep and interesting yet relatively simple tactical battle system actually. Not to go into too much detail, but if a unit's lust got too high they basically couldn't do anything until they were... uh... 'calmed down'. What made it really interesting tactically speaking is units not only had the option to attack another unit's HP, but 'attack' another unit's lust with seduction moves and such. You could basically use this to block the other side's units from doing much, though it got harder to do each time.

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5 hours ago, Kayzee said:

I am kind of confused about what you think the difference between 'hunger' and 'endurance' in this context though. I mean, isn't food a set of items that are used just for restoring/boosting a meter outside of battle? How is endurance a multi-purpose meter while hunger is not?

 

I never said that hunger isn't. Hell, one could say that we're talking about basically the same sort of functionality. I'm basically taking this function and having it mimic, to a degree, the function that Stamina has in TES, though Stamina is what MP is called in my game, Vitality for Health. I actually considered three different names for the TP-based function, one of those being 'famine', but I actually didn't want to confuse the player by having it be one of those meters you don't want full, so I went with Endurance, the other choice being Rage (because that also relies on the meter being empty for optimum performance and didn't want that).

 

5 hours ago, Kayzee said:

...suddenly reminded of that naughty breeding game I was playing a while ago and how it used 'lust' in battle...

 

My game isn't based in sexual nihilism, though there will be references here and there (I'm going to attempt to make them skippable at some point but I have to get that far in development first), and there are some references to non-gender binary, non-heterosexual things going on as is, but I don't consider that explicit (and to anyone that does, they need a good old-fashioned backhanded slap).

But that is a good mechanic to have if it is applicable enough, and it would definitely be a good idea for the gamedev vault, for later perusal.

 

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Really the mechanics of a game is not often directly related to it's themeing. Sometimes everything is abstracted out so much it dosn't actually resemble anything. Mechanically you could probobly do a neerly identical kind if thing that that naughty breeding game does using the idea of 'stress' or 'willpower' instead of lust. t wouldn't be as 'interesting' that way, but the gameplay would work the same.

 

Hmmm... 'Sexual Nihilism' huh? That's a interesting term... I am really more of a 'Sexual Existentialist' myself! 'Existence Precedes Essence' is practically my motto when it comes to a lot of that stuff. :3

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3 hours ago, Kayzee said:

'Sexual Nihilism' < 'Sexual Existentialist'

 

Yeah. I definitely pulled that one out of my arse, as it were, lol

 

I think you just described Yume Nikki in that first sentence, lol

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I know Xenosaga 3 did this with a 'Break Limit', where the meter fills up each time you're hit. If the meter fills to full, your character becomes crippled for a few turns (Can't act & is more susceptible to critical hits). Of course this applies to enemies as well & some attacks specialize in doing Break Damage over regular damage. You can also use items to recover the Break Limit as well.

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It seems potentially detrimental to the flow and core enjoyment of battle, if it's a turn based or active JRPG. I love strategy as much as the next person, but if characters run out of endurance too fast, forcing a rest period, it could be a hindrance to play.

 

Personally, I like the idea of a status meter. Over and above just having status effects like poison, you could make the TP meter represent a character's overall health and well being. Keep fighting, walking on certain terrains, their status meter will drop. You could create new status effects just for this, like infection, fever, other diseases and perhaps enchantments.

 

Characters can eat actual food to restore the meter, as well as rest properly. This would add a layer of caring for your party and characters over and above driving HP potions into them between battles. It could also give a crafting feature like cooking a real purpose in supplying TP restores, whilst keeping any potions for HP & MP you may have planned.

 

I'm seeing it even as a way to potentially characterize, now. You could tune each character's resistances to diseases and medical conditions, based on their species, ethnicity, geography, etc.

 

The more I think about this ^ the more I want to use it myself. ^_^

 

This could allow you to really define the concept of Hit Point vs Health Points, making HP represent Armour durability and wound severity. Perhaps it's even possible to make it so that, when HP hits 0, you don't die, you just go critical, and all further attacks come out of your TP until death.

 

I would put in a secret accessory equip:

1234058772_IV-BagIcon.png.423b624fb218080ed2900f8711ab496a.png(Avery)

The IV Bag. Casts regen on your TP meter, so you never have to stop trashing ass until all your allies have gone comatose.

 

I think your endurance  idea can work too. Only tweak I might suggest is giving a tiny restore at the end of, or start of each battle. Only a few points, but just enough to prevent the feature from making battle seem complicated and undesirable.

Edited by Angry Choco

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@Angry Choco All are fantastic ideas. At the time I was working on the project this was attached to (it's shelved due to issues involving Ruby stuffs and because of the arrogance of another forum I don't want to discuss publicly), I definitely had some sort of TP restore after battle end thing in mind. Also, I had all characters have the 'Preserve TP Post-Battle' feature by default, so that potential issue was eliminated.

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