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I feel like I have too much information going into this game, like, for example, I have plant types, diseases, drugs, sicknesses, deities..etc I even went as far as writing kingdom histories, different factions, religions even the creation and evolution of man and half breeds, magic etc..   is this too much?

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If the info is given piece by piece or can be read somewhere by a player to be able to take a break and revisit later (i.e. a book they can read anytime in their inventory) then there is never enough information because every piece should make your world feel more alive.

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Moved to Theory and Development;

Games in Progress is for submitting your projects, that are in progress. Threads in Games in Progress are expected to meet these requirements:

https://www.rpgmakercentral.com/announcement/20-submitting-your-games/

 

It ultimately depends on the execution. If enough care and polishing is put and if these all play their part in an interesting and relevant way, then it may create an intriguing world worth exploring. However, if it will end up being mostly walls of text, that go too much into details, while not being really important to the story and whatsoever, then most of the players will simply want to skip all of this.

If you want to put tons of trivial information, it's best to do so in form of books, that players will be able to read if they'd be interested - or something similar. It won't hurt having too much information if you'll keep that optional.

 

... I tried to read all the books in Skyrim, gave up after few, when I found a some kind of library with tons of these. 😅 ... but it's nice to have stuff explained, some people dig into such trivia.

 

Also there's a common mistake people do in their rpg maker games, but I guess it's the easiest way to get it done - putting books etc. with a long chain of text in message boxes. Reading in the cheapest way, without knowing how long it actually is tends to grow players impatient after a while. This sometimes also comes with a frustrating result - accidentally triggering the whole chain of text again after trying to skip. This is a bad, bad design, that often annoys players. I highly recommend making reading more pleasant than that.

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It's really not the amount of info that's the real problem, it's how it's presented to the player. It's too easy to fall into what I call Proper Noun Syndrome, where the player is just constantly peppered with bad exposition about things they don't care about. Like when you have those big open text crawls that go something like "On the world of Zig, between the Mushi and Holorin empires, lay the small kingdom of Gerglebutt, where King Snifflepinkle rules with a kind just hand, blah blah blah blah..." That's classic Proper Noun Syndrome. When something has no real context or build up, and instead it's just like "OPEN UP, I AM ABOUT TO FEED YOU A BIG 'O HELPING OF PROPER NOUNS AND EXPOSITION, AND YOU BETTER SWALLOW EVERY DROP YOU DISGUSTING LOREPIG!!!! SQUEAL FOR ME!!!"

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love me a big helping of juicy exposition\lore sometimes... if it's actually written well and interesting. I mean I like Homestuck for goodness sake. Homestuck has pages and pages and pages of silly proper nouns and exposition... Though it helps that Homestuck is well aware how ridiculous it can be and is partly a huge parody of that type of thing... And yet still better at it then 99% of fiction. I seriously think a lot about proper worldbuilding can be learned thanks to Homestuck. It probobly helps that most of the exposition is explained by actual characters, talking in a natural and flowing way and it mostly introduces concepts and shows just enough to keep the reader interested before it actually fully explains anything.

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I think that if the information has relevance, it should remain as is, but if not, then it should be trivial stuffs to peruse at the player's leisure...

 

Of course, I'm basically seconding what everyone else has said, but I also want to point out a flaw with Proper Noun Syndrome in that sometimes, even if the lore is important, it can be absolutely bland to the player who wants to play and not read for half a damn hour. There isn't a name for this specifically, but there's a good example of this that I'll reference here, Simon's Quest Syndrome.


"OH WHAT A TERRIBLE NIGHT TO HAVE A CURSE."

 

Yeah, that, if you get the reference.

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4 hours ago, PhoenixSoul said:

I think that if the information has relevance, it should remain as is, but if not, then it should be trivial stuffs to peruse at the player's leisure...

 

Of course, I'm basically seconding what everyone else has said, but I also want to point out a flaw with Proper Noun Syndrome in that sometimes, even if the lore is important, it can be absolutely bland to the player who wants to play and not read for half a damn hour. There isn't a name for this specifically, but there's a good example of this that I'll reference here, Simon's Quest Syndrome.


"OH WHAT A TERRIBLE NIGHT TO HAVE A CURSE."

 

Yeah, that, if you get the reference.

 

Though if you are a player who wants to play and not read for a half a damn hour, I am not sure if the kind of games most people make with RPG Maker are always all that appealing. :P I for one don't really have a problem with reading a lot of text. I sometimes even like visual novels, which are basically all text and pictures! But yeah, how the text is presented matters. The problem with Simon's Quest was the ridiculously slow text speed, not that it threw an unending stream of text your way. There is also the common problem of not having a chance to save after a big dramatic cutscene before you face a boss and so have to watch the same scene again and again. Also it really doesn't help that the text box can only really hold a few lines of text at a time, so when you have streams and streams of it and no real good way of breaking it up it can be pretty tedious.

 

In the game I am working on I have a looooot of dialogue that explains this or that. Most of it is completely optional though and is only given to the player if they actually ask for info about something. It helped that I scripted something I could use to make adventure game style dialogue trees with topics you can ask about which can unlock more topics to ask about. I try to write most of it in a more natural casual way, as if I am actually talking to someone, with appropriate pauses and breaks to try not to just pile text on the player without giving them the space to take any of it in. Putting \. in a few places and breaking text across multiple message box commands can really help with flow if you do it right! In short, I try to write the text as if I am actually holding a conversation with the player. And, well, since the main NPC you talk to in the game is, in fact, me, I kinda am. :P

Edited by Kayzee

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I like backstory, but I prefer to have to go the extra mile to get all of it, in most games. I'm ok with a game's presented story only being 20-30% of the material. Like other users here have said, it helps the bit you're presented with feel more real. There's a balance, of course, between talking about things like they exist, and attempting to 'naturally' present players with info. 

 

The former can be confusing, an make you think you've missed something. The latter can come off as super contrived, especially in dialogue. 

 

As far as the stuff OP mentioned, with histories, diseases, etc, I would only think that was overkill if I had no way of avoiding it all just to play the main game. Like I said, I personally like to go looking for more story details,  when I'm ready and if I feel like it. 

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On 1/22/2020 at 6:42 AM, Kayzee said:

 

Though if you are a player who wants to play and not read for a half a damn hour, I am not sure if the kind of games most people make with RPG Maker are always all that appealing. :P I for one don't really have a problem with reading a lot of text. I sometimes even like visual novels, which are basically all text and pictures! But yeah, how the text is presented matters. The problem with Simon's Quest was the ridiculously slow text speed, not that it threw an unending stream of text your way. There is also the common problem of not having a chance to save after a big dramatic cutscene before you face a boss and so have to watch the same scene again and again. Also it really doesn't help that the text box can only really hold a few lines of text at a time, so when you have streams and streams of it and no real good way of breaking it up it can be pretty tedious.

 

In the game I am working on I have a looooot of dialogue that explains this or that. Most of it is completely optional though and is only given to the player if they actually ask for info about something. It helped that I scripted something I could use to make adventure game style dialogue trees with topics you can ask about which can unlock more topics to ask about. I try to write most of it in a more natural casual way, as if I am actually talking to someone, with appropriate pauses and breaks to try not to just pile text on the player without giving them the space to take any of it in. Putting \. in a few places and breaking text across multiple message box commands can really help with flow if you do it right! In short, I try to write the text as if I am actually holding a conversation with the player. And, well, since the main NPC you talk to in the game is, in fact, me, I kinda am. :P

 

 

Even though you didn't really understand the OP, let me see if I understand you correctly.

 

 

When game devs develop an entire world with geography, culture, and history, then boil that down to avoid clutter and endless dialogue, you hate it because places and people still have names?

 

Hmmm. Interesting.

 

 

 

 

Now allow me to explain what you missed.

 

Doomboxx is not saying that in his game, you will spend hours reading about plant types, diseases, drugs, sicknesses and deities. That would be rather silly. I'm sure there may be places to inform you about all of these things, because they are features of play.... Plants to harvest, diseases you can contract and drugs to treat and heal.

 

Elder Scrolls, anyone? Oodles of additional content you can choose to enjoy, or bitch about online. Tons of deities that virtually don't matter. This is not an alien concept, if you just pay attention and use common sense instead of finding something to crusade against.

Edited by That One NPC

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16 hours ago, That One NPC said:

 

 

Even though you didn't really understand the OP, let me see if I understand you correctly.

 

 

When game devs develop an entire world with geography, culture, and history, then boil that down to avoid clutter and endless dialogue, you hate it because places and people still have names?

 

Hmmm. Interesting.

 

 

 

 

Now allow me to explain what you missed.

 

Doomboxx is not saying that in his game, you will spend hours reading about plant types, diseases, drugs, sicknesses and deities. That would be rather silly. I'm sure there may be places to inform you about all of these things, because they are features of play.... Plants to harvest, diseases you can contract and drugs to treat and heal.

 

Elder Scrolls, anyone? Oodles of additional content you can choose to enjoy, or bitch about online. Tons of deities that virtually don't matter. This is not an alien concept, if you just pay attention and use common sense instead of finding something to crusade against.

 

Uh, no. That's not what I said at all. Do you actually pay attention to what I say? Proper Noun Syndrome is not when 'things nave names'. It's when a whole bunch of names are thrown at the player without context or build up or basically any reason to care. It's when concepts are mentioned again and again but actually have basically nothing to do with anything. Yes The Elder Scrolls had tons of side content that didn't really matter and probobly had a mild case of what I call Proper Noun Syndrome, but at least it was all sort of connected together if you dove into the lore enough. I am more talking about stuff like Highlander 2, where concepts literally come form nowhere and don't really add anything to anything and just turn the story into a barely coherent mess. Even in The Elder Scrolls' case I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that it's story isn't always the most well written. People forgive it for being big and massive and open, but I think a player could be forgiven for not seeing the point.

 

Seriously Onesy. This is not an alien concept, if you just pay attention and use common sense instead of finding something to crusade against. :P

Edited by Kayzee

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16 minutes ago, Kayzee said:

or basically any reason to care.

 

 

This is your problem. Build-up or not, it's an issue of whether or not you can find it anywhere in you to care. To take that Proper Noun Crumb and let your imagination run with it.

 

Don't blame the developers and invent ridiculous syndromes to dance around the issue.

Edited by That One NPC

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Just now, That One NPC said:

 

 

This is your problem. Build-up or not, it's an issue of whether or not you can find it anywhere in you to care. To take that Proper Noun Crumb and let your imagination run with it.

 

Don't blame the developers and invent ridiculous syndromes to dance around the issue.

 

An artist's or storyteller's job is to make me care. If they don't, they have failed. It's that simple. I don't even necessarily blame the developers for it, it's not easy to do sometimes with some people. But I know I can care about stories with lots and lots of details, so is there something wrong with explaining what makes the difference for me?

 

Look what exactly is your problem here? I made a silly little name for a pattern I noticed. Didn't you block me to avoid exactly this type of conflict, and now you are throwing yourself in the middle of it again? Seriously, this isn't helping your case.

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20 minutes ago, Kayzee said:

 

An artist's or storyteller's job is to make me care. If they don't, they have failed. It's that simple. I don't even necessarily blame the developers for it, it's not easy to do sometimes with some people. But I know I can care about stories with lots and lots of details, so is there something wrong with explaining what makes the difference for me?

 

Look what exactly is your problem here? I made a silly little name for a pattern I noticed. Didn't you block me to avoid exactly this type of conflict, and now you are throwing yourself in the middle of it again? Seriously, this isn't helping your case.

 

 

You went off on an unrelated tirade, and I'm sick of it. Someone has to say something every now and then.

 

I take the opinions of malcontent contrarians with a grain of salt, but at least try to make sense when you do this type of thing.

Edited by That One NPC

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Except I didn't. I was on topic and contributing my opinion. Then you come out of nowhere and start trying to drag me into an argument and personally attack me. Again, not helping your case. If you really feel I am a problem, report me and let the mods/admins handle it. You don't have to ruin every thread I post in by dragging me into a personal conflict with you. You can take my opinion with as much salt as you like, you can think I don't make any sense, but if you want to actually debate with me then calling me names and refusing to actually debate your position is not helpful. And if you don't, why the heck do you keep replying?

 

Yeah, I know. That type of response never works. You are going to reply, you are going to keep thinking of me as a 'malcontent contrarian', and eventually one of us will be banned. And I have been trying to avoid that. I have been trying not to see you as the real malcontent contrarian. But if this is the way it's gonna be every I make any kind of post in the future? Well, I don't think either of us really look like saints right now. But I have backed of again and again when you have gotten personal, and you continue to attack me even after blocking me. So yeah, I honestly don't think I am in the wrong here. Guess riki will decide.

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@That One NPC I don't get where you're coming from. @Kayzee did not say what you're implying he said. It seems like you took few sentences out of context and started arguing with something you came up with yourself. He even clarified, that he didn't say what you claimed he said, yet you continued to see whatever you want to see and argue with that. The worst part is, that regardless of what he said, you started arguing on a personal level by attacking him, instead of discussing things properly, derailing the thread with bad manners and content, that doesn't add anything to the topic.

 

 

Cut it out.

 

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Look, I think we can all agree:

- @Kayzee can be a little abrasive all the time  sometimes

- @That One NPC took a wrong left turn, and like a proud father didn't want to stop and ask for directions

- @Rikifive is a whimsical equine creature who was just trying to help

- @PhoenixSoul just wants people to know their demo is up on itch.io, and that it's ok to go try it out

- @Lord Vectra is dark and mysterious, and apparently good with complex events

- @Arrpeegeemaker is a kitty cat inside of a man's body operating him with controls

- 5th Avenue Bars are way better than Butterfingers

- Instant Ramen is better when you boil the water separately instead of pouring water in with the soup and microwaving it

- Every Cable TV station doesn't need their own streaming service

- You should be allowed to hit your kids

- I should be allowed to hit your kids

- @Doomboxx1134 is probably very confused right now

Edited by Arrpeegeemaker

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Details are very important elements to a game's story. I think it is best to slowly give details throughout a game. It would make twists and stunning revaluations more exciting at the end.

 

You need to give some information to start the game. It is the developer's job to make people interested in the game. My game's synopsis will not include how the main villain obtained his power. You will need to play the game to discover all of the facts or details.

 

The only details that need all of the information is the game's battle system and other importation functions.

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