What if someone was lazy like this

[TheFaceless 6]

By loading all the sample maps

Uses nothing but stock resources for database 

Takes a whole month for the project

[amerk 1,122]

Somebody who chooses not to do a single thing probably won't get a lot of serious players, and even less positive feedback. I don't mind the resources in general, the sample maps look good, and the audio works much better than VX, but you certainly don't want to keep everything.

 

For one, the sample maps should be used as a base. I've used a couple of the VX sample maps for my VX project (the ruins and tower ones) because those are hard to map, and then I went over them to make them even more detailed and appealing to fit my game. So using the sample maps as a base to create your own ideas is one thing; using them out of the box with no added element of detail is another.

 

Second, the internet is full of sprites, facesets, and music. So even if you can't find tilesets that work with the RTP and don't want your game to clash, you can at least change up these other areas.

 

Third, the database should be reworked. You can use the same battlers, but give them your own stats, balance, and strategy. Create your own formulas and skills. Find new ways for state changes.

 

Finally, unless your project is about 1 hour long and you've done made enough games in the past, a single month on a game is almost a no for me. I can usually tell when somebody has put in 1 year over a single month. I'm not expecting Square-Enix quality (if there is such a thing as quality from them anymore), but I expect some sort of effort put into it. Otherwise, what's the point of trying to make a game; you may as well be playing them instead.

[omedon666 4]

Somebody who chooses not to do a single thing probably won't get a lot of serious players, and even less positive feedback. I don't mind the resources in general, the sample maps look good, and the audio works much better than VX, but you certainly don't want to keep everything.

 

For one, the sample maps should be used as a base. I've used a couple of the VX sample maps for my VX project (the ruins and tower ones) because those are hard to map, and then I went over them to make them even more detailed and appealing to fit my game. So using the sample maps as a base to create your own ideas is one thing; using them out of the box with no added element of detail is another.

 

Second, the internet is full of sprites, facesets, and music. So even if you can't find tilesets that work with the RTP and don't want your game to clash, you can at least change up these other areas.

 

Third, the database should be reworked. You can use the same battlers, but give them your own stats, balance, and strategy. Create your own formulas and skills. Find new ways for state changes.

 

Finally, unless your project is about 1 hour long and you've done made enough games in the past, a single month on a game is almost a no for me. I can usually tell when somebody has put in 1 year over a single month. I'm not expecting Square-Enix quality (if there is such a thing as quality from them anymore), but I expect some sort of effort put into it. Otherwise, what's the point of trying to make a game; you may as well be playing them instead.

With all due respect, responses like this are exactly while I will probably never post my games here, in a direct, official sense, no matter how comfortable I get with the toolset.  I'm sorry, but that just came off as utterly elitist.  I'm sure you didn't intend that, but it did.

 

To the OP:

 

If the game is fun, the game is fun.  Perhaps some people in this community need to check themselves against their understandably "jaded to the RTP" reflexes.  You are not entitled to a builder's time (unless you're paying them), so tapping your foot at them just isn't cool.  What's a month?

 

I'll pitch my games to people who won't judge me on the maps I use, people for whom even the impressive resources the toolset comes with aren't taboo.

Edited December 30, 2012 by omedon666

[Bunni89 85]

o.o It's eliteist to say 'make a bloody game'??

I mean geez this isn't a debate of 'oh, RTP is terrible and instantly ruins a project!', this is a debate against using the default actors, the default maps, everything premade! THAT is something you shouldn't do, and you shouldn't expect a pat on the back for it. You're making a game that -at best- will only contain one original componant- the story. And considering the creator is being lazy enough to go 'well I'll just give people RPGmaker out of the box!' I somehow doubt they'd bother to put effort into the writing when they didn't put it into anything else.

This idea is stupidly pointless and I'd say it's 100% your own fault if you 'make' this sort of game and nobody finds it remotely interesting.

This is the sort of stuff people do when experimenting with how to learn the program, it's not gonna be remotely entertaining to anyone on this forum full of ~people who already know what the default stuff is~ and it's not even making a game, it's making a few events to link premade maps and then maybe some cliche FIGHT THE EVIL DEMON KING dialogue.

 

People can use the RTP to be creative, people can use the default characters and maps as inspiration. It's shoddy and boring to use them as they are and put none of your soul into it, and noone wants to play the same bloody test levels again and again. And it's foul to call someone elitist because they ask that people put effort into what they make. This isn't a 'oh you have to craft all the art with the blood of your very fingers and code with your face and make ten million hours of chrono cross sequel and charge 400 dollars for it, else you're not a real developer!!' This is just.. make a game. Don't try and dress up a turd. Don't take 80% of someone else's work, don't even edit anything, and pretend this is your super awesome bestest super totes original project.

 

Also just to add that I'm not assuming the OP was actually gonna do this XD It's an interesting question to think about though.

 

EDIT: Oh and amerk didn't even say it was a terrible idea, let alone diss the very concept of basic games! They reasonably wrote out how you can actually use RTP and tilesets from around the net in order to make something creative! How to use the sample games as inspiration!

It's eliteist to even suggest the OP is wrong, without insulting them in any way or going "oh you have to follow my rules"? Those were several very open-ended pieces of advice along the lines of "do whatever you want with the materials, just do SOMETHING". I think either you greatly misunderstood them or there's some large ideological difference here, and I'd love to see an explanation of that. (And I'd concede I was the one missing the point, if I was.)

Sorry I'm getting so riled up here, it just hits me right in the creativity to see the word 'eliteist' being thrown at someone showing the bare minimum of quality standards.

 

Oh but I do disagree that 1 month games can never be good. Many neat short challenge games were made in similar timeframes and they're usually awesome. But in those cases there was planning, prioritizing and extreme effort from someone who knew what they were doing, and the time limit was enforced. I think amerk's point was that someone who goes 'ehhh' and rushes out a minimum effort game in a month is a bit of a loser, and that most games SHOULD spend longer than that in development. I mean, many contest games I love could still have benefitted from more time to put the finishing touches on, and I doubt the creators went 'yup, I was perfectly happy with that timeframe and never felt pressured or stifled'

Basically the guy that puts in occasional effort over a month and thinks of a month as a long time isn't likely to make much unless he's geniusly effortlessly talented.

Whereas the guy who uses the whole month and is absolutely battling the deadline and couldn't fit in everything he wanted, still creating a pretty darn packed game.. that guy is the guy I'd admire.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Bunni89

[omedon666 4]

o.o It's eliteist to say 'make a bloody game'??

In the context you and everyone else in this thread are generally framing it?  Yes.

 

You tend to forget that there is an entire world of people outside this insular community that would love a game with a good story and 100% RTP resources.  I'm friends with many of them.

 

It goes back to what I said in another thread: Newer builders just shouldn't officially draw attention to their games here.  It ends up with this kind of demoralizing vitriol.

Edited December 30, 2012 by omedon666

[Bunni89 85]

You have misread the OP, and amerk.

The ENTIRE TOPIC is not remotely 'RTP is bad'. It's 'literally copying everything in the default resources is bad'.

This is the equivelant of.. say you had an engine that allowed you to edit FF6 so that only the text was changed. That might be good for a superficial laugh but noone would see it as its own new game that stands on its own two feet unless the story was VERY good. And in that case everyone would be utterly, utterly dissappointed that all the potential of videogames as a storytelling medium was lost because this person was lazy. There would be no point in even making something like that because if you wrote it as a novel it would be BETTER because there's no stigma of 'this is shoddy copying, and none of this stuff actually fits the story'. Plus you'd actually describe stuff as it is in the vision in your head, unless you copied harry potter and changed the names... (someone actually did that and called it fanfiction once)

Me, I'm very much pro-RTP and pro story. I love the amount of potential you have to experiment with just the basic stuff you're given, without even starting on gathering more resources. i get kinda sick of seeing the same visuals in many games, but I don't hold that against the creators and it doesn't lessen the quality. Not being creative AT ALL, it REALLY REALLY DOES. :|

So if you're afraid to post your game because it is literally the sample game with changed character names, then yes you need to hold off on posting it until it's something more creative. if it isn't, then neither me or amerk is insulting it. I dunno about him but I'd be perfectly fine to check out YOUR game, just not this hypothetical one raised by the OP.

 

P.S: yes , I know people do demonize the RTP elsewhere, it's just derailing to bring it up here as if we're saying no game should ever be anything less than 100% original

P.P.S I do advise people to go out and nab some external resources, ANY external resources aside from the RTP, if possible. Simply because I know the stigma exists and RTP screenshots will look identical to a million others and not properly sell your game. And if you don't care what your graphics look like then it shouldn't matter if you just plugged in any random other ones, yet it'd benefit you loads in making everyone look twice at your game. I rather dislike stigma causing good stories to go unseen.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Bunni89

[+ Titanhex 284]

This could easily escalate into a flame war. Lets take a breather.

 

...

 

Good.

 

Now on subject, both points are valid.

 

This community and most all RM communities are biased against RTP for good reason.

 

We've had to stare at RTP for so long and all of us have had to play around with RTP and by god, we're sick of it.

 

Outside the community there are plenty of people who will like the RTP, having not seen it. The RTP is actually beautifully done.

 

That aside, someone who uses just the RTP is one of two things. Either not creative at all or extremely creative.  The RTP is nice, but it's limited. That is to say though, anyone who does not create their own graphics is limited in presenting their experience the way they want it.  I can edit the RTP. The RTP has a lot of resources that match it. It's honestly one of the better things we can use.  But if we're not presenting it to people outside the RPG Maker community, it's not going to go very far.

 

In the OPs post, I would not think the  game would be very good.  It doesn't mean they're lazy, it means they're still limited.  Once they begin to expand past the boundaries of their narrowed experience, they can grasp the plethora of tools available to them.  Infact, creating your own graphics instead of using the RTP is a fantastic way to branch out and become something more creative, even if what you produce is visually poop.  The harder you work on breaking out of reliance on premade graphics (not just RTP) the strong a developer you become.

 

What this means is your first game will not be that good. Infact, a great and well known professional video game developer (Forget if it was Ralph Koster or Jesse Schell, lets go with Schell) has said your first 10 games will be no good. He's right too.  Infact you'll be lucky if you finish your first 10 games.

 

But you need to make those first 10 games so your 11th will be good.

 

No one makes a great game their first time. But people get really excited about their first game. When we're excited about our accomplishment we show it off, or at least want to. Every game is a large effort.  People don't realize that.  Making a video game, no matter how "simple" is a lot of work.

 

I think if someone released a game like the OP posted, it would probably be their first game. They will have learned something, which is good. The game will not be good. The person might be limited in their creative scope. The game could potentially have good elements though. Whose to say.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Titanhex

[omedon666 4]

This community and most all RM communities are biased against RTP for good reason.

 

We've had to stare at RTP for so long and all of us have had to play around with RTP and by god, we're sick of it.

 

Outside the community there are plenty of people who will like the RTP, having not seen it. The RTP is actually beautifully done.

That is my entire point, and viewpoints that go toward what Bunni has said are exactly why I've even removed my facebook page from my signature.

 

You're entitled to think that way, all of you, and I'm entitled to say "see you in another 10 games" and go into "read and occasionally comment when I know I'm right" mode.

 

Which I've done tonight, and will resume doing right now, having finished with this thread.

 

Have a nice day.

 

(EDIT) After a night's sleep and starting a new thread, I feel confident enough to actually mention my games in my signature again.

Edited December 30, 2012 by omedon666

[Bunni89 85]

But... I'm not arguing anti-RTP. The OP never started a topic that was anti-RTP. Amerk never REPLIED in a way that was anti-RTP. S/he made a reasoned comment suggesting how the RTP could be used creatively, as opposed to the scenario the OP suggested. Titanhex's 10 games comment was meant to be motivating, saying basically 'who cares if your first 10 games get a bad response, someday you'll make one that's awesome!'

So you're kinda arguing a strawman here.

If everyone actually wants to change the topic to 'is the RTP lame?' then I've already said that I think its fine, but because it has a stigma on this forum you'd just have to try extra hard to get yourself noticed, or shove in some random non-RTP just to look better. I don't think that's right, but that's the state of things here. I DO think its understandable though, as like titan said, all these experienced game designers have seen enough RTP for a lifetime, and many MANY no-effort-made games appear everyday using the RTP. So the community can be forgiven for not noticing good RTP games amoungst all the cliche samey ones. You still have to actually make a good RTP game though... you have to put effort into experimenting with what you're given.

Omedon you are being exceedingly bizzare and immature if you just deleted your signature thing 'omigod ah'm being attacked' when I never even said the RTP was bad and explicitely said I have nothing against your future game.. unless it is what the OP described, which kinda sucks. And is the game equivelant of being given a bunch of flashcards for homework, being asked to arrange them any way you want, and returning them in the exact same order just with your name written on them.

Seriously I am getting quite frustrated here because I'm just arguing "you have nothing to be mad about here, we weren't even talking about that" and somehow you're seeing it as me being some raging anti-RTP lunatic.

 

EDIT: Just to add yet another note.. I'm using the RTP tileset because I can't make tilesets, even if I like to add my own art on top of it. I have absolutely bloody nothing against the bloody RTP, I just dislike lack of creativity!

A map made by you, using the tilesets = GOOD~

The sample map, with no changes = BAD~

the 'Eric' actor, renamed Gregory and given a unique skill list = Pretty darn neat!

the 'Eric' actor, as he is = Not gonna grab my attention, sorry!

~Simple viewpoint that I apparantly suck at explaining, or something~

Edited December 30, 2012 by Bunni89

[+ Titanhex 284]

I'm glad we both have a similar viewpoint here and you were able to take something from my post, just as I was able to illustrate my thoughts.

 

I definitely implore you to break out of not just the RTP, but all premade graphics. Of course that takes time, and the best experience is by studying premade, editing it, splicing it, and then imitating it by using it as a base. From here you can start creating your own graphics.

And I mean this for anyone who is in the forum reading this, wanting to at any point make a commercial game.

People appreciate someone who has walked in their shoes.

 

Bunni, Just because omegdon is no longer participating in the conversation doesn't mean he disagrees with any of the posts here. Some people, clearly omegdon being one of them, do not use as many words as you do.

 

Infact he agrees with at least part of my own post. I think he understands what has been said here, and if not then that is no loss by us.

 

You understand, the same as him, that RTP is frowned upon by the developer community. You yourself have said it. It is fact. And we know why. Just because you're fine with RTP doesn't mean everyone is. But I don't think there's a crucifixion going on for RTP users or anything close to that. If there is, it's in your head.  I don't think it's elitist to pass off RTP, I think it's just the audience in any developer community are rightfully jaded and looking for something more.

 

I'm sure omegdon understands too. If that stops him from posting his game in the developer community, as he may not be able to handle the criticism he'll receive for RTP, then that's fine too.  I'm sure he'll still collect information and resources that will help him and spread his game elsewhere.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Titanhex

[Bunni89 85]

....I'm not even arguing about the RTP. Is anyone getting the point here? What i'm saying is this topic didn't even start about RTP vs non-RTP, it was about unoriginal gamemaking in general. And I've apparantly wasted piles of words here trying to argue against omegdon because he ASSUMED it was exclusively anti-RTP, and then apparantly decided I was insulting him and noone likes his games and up and left.

My 'fine with RTP' bit was just to add that.. I never said the RTP was bad in the first place, so WTF??

I also never said there's giant crucifixion of RTP-users.. and also 'just because omegdon doesn't reply, doesn't mean he disagrees!'.. he said he disagreed many times and then ragequit while I was trying to explain that noone said the thing that pissed him off in the first place!

Oh gawd I'm just confused now.

The only point I tried to make is that omegdon was being incredibly rude by assuming amerk hated all RTP, and not reading his post before insulting him as some elitist. Amerk gave some great advice to the OP about using the RTP more creatively. The entire bloomin' topic just went 'hey should I use the premade game?' 'no, use the RTP, it's fun!' 'OMG YOU HATE THE RTP, YOU'RE SUCH A DICK' 'what the hell are you talking about' 'OMG EVERYONE IS RTP-HATING DICKS'

If we actually want to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of RTP can we make our own topic? Because this just got derailed as hell and I apparantly really suck at trying to point that out. *just facepalms forever* Gawd did some guy really just ragequit out of showing his games on this forum AT ALL because of some insult he made up himself? I am never bloody arguing anything ever again. Someone just shoot me. I feel sorry for the OP when they come back to see the state of the thread..

 

Summary of what I have been trying to effin' say: unoriginal rearranging of entire clumps of stock game like in the OP, that is bad. Noone ever said the RTP itself is bad, especially not me. And this has been very very stupid. Seriously, either omegdon made a large misunderstanding here or its me who did, and if it is then I greatly apologise but STILL think he was being unreasonably rude randomly blurting out how amerk is a horrible elitist who makes him feel unwelcome on the forum.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Bunni89

[amerk 1,122]

omedon, the OP asked a question, I gave my opinion. Take it however you will. But I can assure you I'm a lot more open-minded with the RTP than a lot of RM gamers are. Sure outside the community, people don't know about the RTP. But many who frequent the communities do. However, I'm willing to bet throwing a game together with nothing changed (same maps, battlers, enemies, etc) wouldn't appeal to very many people, regardless of the community.

 

If I'm elitist, I'd hate to see what you consider anybody who uses any remote part of the RTP as taboo.

 

Also, as for my comment about 1 month games, I know there are some who can produce fine results in a month. Those people generally have had a lot of practice though. But somebody who comes along and says he's too lazy to change a single thing of the RTP and will release his game in 1 month, I'm already inclined to think "No thanks".

[Bunni89 85]

Aaaand.. that was what I was trying to say. Amerk was never being bloomin' eliteist, though I admit I probably looked rather ragey ranting about that XD Being lazy does not equal using RTP. Insulting one does not insult the other. People whose actual game is this lazy DO deserve to go back and maybe refine their ideas and noone is being a jerk for criticizing them. But I doubt omegdon is gonna come back now so.. *shrug* Good topic of conversation ruined, I guess.

*faceplants on the floor and dies* Some people just burn out your brain.. gahwd I can't even emphasize with anyone who'd look at a gamemaker and not go 'ooh, I can make things! I want to experiment!' The RTP is building blocks for you to express your imagination, it's not a premade game that you can just throw out there and get praised for.

[EternalShadow 28]

Well, believe it or not, I made a 2-hour (though someone posted a five-hour Let's Play of the entire game on Youtube) game with the RTP. I didn't use the pregenerated maps, but my mapping was commented on as being poor anyway lol. But because the first game was so popular, I decided to start my second, for which the mapping is a lot better. Well, almost all aspects are.

 

 

Basically, you CAN use stock resources, as long as they're used well. Don't leave parts off trees, don't make the platform for the 'Crystal of Light' a generic wood - mix it up. It's not just stock resources either - there's still a dialogue tree and story to portray. If you were able to show a decent story within 30 days by using stock resources, I'd hail it as somehow of an achievement and give it a shot! (after all, using presets to tell something in a creative way is harder than when you have exactly the resources you need for any given situation.)

But if not, pass.

Edited December 30, 2012 by HotfireLegend

[TheFaceless 6]

Trust me, I ain't doing this, I just had the thought pop up

[RetroExcellent 369]

Is it bad that I didn't even KNOW there were pregenerated maps?

 

I also think not changing anything is rather lazy. Now I'm not saying you need to change resources, you can use the RTP and if you are not an artist and just starting out, I think you should. The RTP are well built to TEACH you how to map and design things, they kind of go well together and it can be fun. Like Legos, they are fun and you can build whatever you can imagine within it's limitation, but if you just stack the blocks up and call it art...well not everyone will agree, though I'm sure you can find someone who does.

 

As far as the Bunni situation goes, I agree with you. You never insulted RTP, you never said it was bad, you were just upset at someone assuming another person was elitist and then raging at you. I had almost the same response until I continued to read. I would have to say though, don't get so angry at people, if someone wants to assume something about another person, try to clear it up. If they choose not to listen, then you have done all you can and they will not change their opinion.

 

Save yourself the effort and don't get so upset at everything, I think you explained yourself perfectly well, some people are just inclined not to listen.

[Jonnie91 1,149]

In regards to the length of time you take to create a game. There is no need to stress out about the amount of time you spend on games it all depends on your skill level for example I can list a good amount of games that were created in a VERY short space of time and were of high quality and a good strong complete game. 

As a developer who has created a full game in under a week. It's very possible to make a fully functioning, allowing for some errors, custom games. Using very little RTP. It takes some work and effort but you should actually judge a game by it's time frame of creation. 

 

A good example is Vestibule by Sailarius. He created it in 48hrs if I remember rightly. Also another one is Finding Eden, which is made by Sailarius and another members whose name I cannot spell right this second XD

 

In my personal opinion there are plenty of resources out there that you don't even need to use the RTP anymore. Just a search on Google will bring up resources by Cellianna, Lunerea which are free to use. Also if you are members of forums you'll actually have access to custom resources made for the community. I don't "hate" the RTP but I don't see why you have to use it. Also, you have GrandmaDeb's resource lists to make your life easier. 

[Wren 179]

What if you are using premade maps and RTP so you can learn eventing, game flow, structure, database manipulation, ect ect, but then no one plays your game because they take a look and immediately discard it because it used RTP graphics?

 

How is that helpful to the community?

 

I used to use custom graphics scavanged from the interwebs but I haven't used rpg maker in a decade and have gone through 4 computers since and don't have ANY of that stuff left, nor would it even help since the formatting has changed so much since then.  Pulling up a google/bing search for "rpg maker resources" or "rpg maker vxace sprites" yelds a ton of results but it's pretty daunting to try and search through it all.  I tried for about 45 minutes, got shellshocked and went back to using the RTP, since I wanted to make a game, not search, organize, and use custom graphics to appease people on these boards.

[Cait 385]

I love mapping, always check screenshot threads and looked over the example maps to see what you can do. The most I would do with those maps, if I was practicing making a game from start to finish and was relatively short. Now that would be good practice as you learned the general system, but it wouldn't teach you to map, though. I don't see why this turned into a discussion on RTP, either you like it or you don't. I've seen "custom" graphics that made me say "and that's why i use RTP.". But I've begun to expand from recolors, to edits to remixing, to semi-beginning to create my own graphic. But if you create a game with no effort on your part, without changing anything in the database or haven't done a recolor or anything? We have our strengths and weaknesses. My weakness is music, but my strength is story, and getting better with graphic. Scripts I'm helpless on, but I wish I can learn. My two cents, with inflation, likely a good nickels worth. And no, no matter how anti-RTP you think people are, they've warmed up to RTP graphics as I have seen and heard worse. Trust me on this.

[amerk 1,122]

What if you are using premade maps and RTP so you can learn eventing, game flow, structure, database manipulation, ect ect, but then no one plays your game because they take a look and immediately discard it because it used RTP graphics?

 

How is that helpful to the community?

 

I used to use custom graphics scavanged from the interwebs but I haven't used rpg maker in a decade and have gone through 4 computers since and don't have ANY of that stuff left, nor would it even help since the formatting has changed so much since then.  Pulling up a google/bing search for "rpg maker resources" or "rpg maker vxace sprites" yelds a ton of results but it's pretty daunting to try and search through it all.  I tried for about 45 minutes, got shellshocked and went back to using the RTP, since I wanted to make a game, not search, organize, and use custom graphics to appease people on these boards.

 

I don't think you'll find a non helpful community as long as you are trying to put forth effort. Most don't expect a highly polished game, but they do expect some level of effort. If you're simply learning and eventing, creating topics and examples for support in events may be better than a full-fledged game. If you stay with the stock resources, some will gripe, others not so much, many will play.... assuming you at least tried to create your own characters and monsters (even if they use the stock).

 

But if somebody slapped a game together with no changes (even the database stays the same with the same enemies, heroes, items, weapons, stats, etc), well you don't have to be an artist to be creative. Part of eventing means finding unique monsters, status effects, and skills that can greatly form a strategical battle plan.

 

Again, I've used a couple of the VX maps in my own game for areas that I have no idea to map, and then I went over them with my own creative ideas and details.

[omedon666 4]

After a night's sleep, I have started a new thread, and feel a lot better.  I'd appreciate if Bunni and those that took issue with me here take a moment to read what I've posted.

http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/9627-in-defense-of-new-and-less-new-builders-and-usage-of-the-rtp/

 

Thank you for your time, 

 

-Omedon

 

[Tsukihime 1,489]

It takes a lot of work to get custom resources and come up with custom names for everything.

If the story's good I don't really mind how they choose to present it.

 

Of course it could be better to see different things, but then again what if the art was just less than appealing?

[TheFaceless 6]

I actually like these comments, great for new builders (like me) to see what's up with using the base RTP.

 

 

I did an almost complete rehaul of the database because I didn't like the reused icon sets for certain things like skills and statuses (which had none on occassions) as well as altered the actor list with character generated ones.

 

Mapping, I mixed the tilesets around as well as got a few tilesets from sources to not be named until game completion

 

thanks guys and keeep the flame down please

[Overtime 10]

By loading all the sample maps

Uses nothing but stock resources for database 

Takes a whole month for the project

 

I don't see a problem with this. in fact, if someone is able to make a decent story and a game that can make gameplay for a little more than 2 Hours, then It can be rated good or bad, depending on it's quality of other things such as grammar.

 

Besides, I'm guilty of using RTP's base items. Why? I don't have the time/knowledge to Compose Music/Create graphics by hand. I don't have the program to make them, to be exact.

[DeafBat 1]

If we assume someone is uses everything RTP has without changing anything and then adds few lines of dialogue here and there. I wouldn't call that lazy since RTP has so many sample

maps, but the game would be too long and boring and killing the ultimate bad guy that threatens to destroy everything is so very lame.

 

Let's take someone who can write actually good stories and he just wants people to read them. He decides to make a game, but he doesn't care much about what the characters look like,

or what classes they are and only changes their names. Picks 6-10 sample maps that fit into his story and then makes the dialogue and events. Tries his game out to check for

any bugs and if there's enough encounters for characters to buy some gear and level up and beat the boss without needing to grind. Game uses RTP and sample maps only and has a

great story. He shows the game to his friends and some other players first who have no clue what RTP actually is and they love it! Graphics look great, story is great and the

characters are really cool! I see no problem with this. Then he shows it to RM Community and some might go: "Ewww! RTP! Ewww! Sample maps! Ewww! So half-assed and lazy! Ewww!" and not

that many would try it.

 

Spending 5h to make maps that look like shit is worse than spending 10min on choosing sample maps. No matter if the tilesets are custom or not. Chocolate covered shit is still shit.

 

So much depends on the story and character development...