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I'm really curious about this because there has been a lot of nice things on RPG Maker XP which is the first RGSS editor for the RM programs.

I've seen many people ask question about getting scripts that were made on XP for Ace, and most/some of the replies are usually,

It's impossible or Won't happen

 

People have said that RGSS3 is much easier to use, and learn, while others have also stated it was improved as well.

So if RGSS3 is more advance and better then RGSS, and RGSS2.

 

Why isn't there anything as nice as most of the stuff on the XP or VX?

 

 

Examples~

 

 

 

RPG Maker XP Battle System~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghOtQ1t5hGs

 

RPG Maker XP Battle System~

 

 

RPG Maker XP Menu~

 

 

RPG Maker VX Battle System~

 

 

 

 

I just don't know if RGSS3 is more improved or not.

 

I want to know what other people think of the stuff we have for Ace at the moment, compared to XP/VX.

We have nice stuff, but doesn't seem as good as the old.

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The number one thing I can think of is age.

 

It is like trying to say (when Android was first released) that iPhone is better than any Droid due to lack of apps, but the app market was just developing.  Look at it now, and the comparison is much better.  That is because the Droid play store has had time to develop.

 

RGSS3 is the newest system, and needs time for these awesome scripts to be written for the new system.  I say try to write the scripts yourself (as it is someone who writes them that makes them so advanced) or give it time, and let someone else script it.  Either way, it takes time to allow someone to make these awesome scripts.

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The number one thing I can think of is age.

 

It is like trying to say (when Android was first released) that iPhone is better than any Droid due to lack of apps, but the app market was just developing.  Look at it now, and the comparison is much better.  That is because the Droid play store has had time to develop.

 

RGSS3 is the newest system, and needs time for these awesome scripts to be written for the new system.  I say try to write the scripts yourself (as it is someone who writes them that makes them so advanced) or give it time, and let someone else script it.  Either way, it takes time to allow someone to make these awesome scripts.

 

Hasn't it been out since December 1, 2011 though?

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It appears the Ace was released on Dec 15 2011 for the Japanese version, It appears that the English version was released on March 15th.  I do not know how that would effect scripting, but those were the dates.

 

VX was released on Dec 27 2007, and Feb 29 2008, and XP on  Jul 22 2004, and Sept 16 2005.

 

So, VX has about 4 years on Ace, and XP 7 years on us.  So I mean, that is a substantial amount of time.  I guarantee those scripts you showed were not made in the first year, or like 2 of their release.  Even the VX script was published in 2010, which is at least 2 years after the release of VX.

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Battle Systems take a long time, some of the more popular ones take up to 1-2 years. Takentai would've been fairly quick because porting it from RGSS2 would've been quicker than rewriting it.

It's not impossible to port RGSS scripts into RGSS3, I'm just not enthusiastic about reading more than 10,000 lines of logic that I didn't write and then trying to figure out how to modify it to be nice with the newer system.

I'm quite sure a lot of scripters would think the same. If it needs to be rewritten anyway, I'd rather just make it myself from scratch; problem is I'm too lazy to spend that amount of time on it, that's where you get the won't happen quote.

Edited by DP3

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If someone, anyone, dares convert my shitty Ar Tonelico script for Ace, I'll commit suicide by watching 300 episodes of Naruto in a row.

 

RGSS3 is vastly superior to RGSS2 and especially RGSS1. Just because we aren't remaking the exact same stuff doesn't mean it's bad. It means we're writing different scripts, better scripts. Not huge messes that break compatibility with everything else, but smaller, more compatible scripts. It also means you need to pick more carefully and combine what you really need instead of plugging something because it looks cool.

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If someone, anyone, dares convert my shitty Ar Tonelico script for Ace, I'll commit suicide by watching 300 episodes of Naruto in a row.

Why would you say that?

I thought it was a nice script.

 

You said this on your site.

 

Ar Tonelico Battle System

A battle system inspired from the first Ar Tonelico game on the PlayStation 2. I was supposed to upgrade it but finally, I won’t. May eventually be revived with Vx Ace or not, time will tell heh. If I end up brutally murdered, it means Skie Fortress read that.

 

Edited by Levi Stepp

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Feel free to take the effort and convert the scripts yourself.

Just because people don't want to spend ages rebuilding a system from an older version they wont even be using themselves doesn't mean this version is terrible.

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RGSS3 IS ABSURDELY FAR BETTER THAN RGSS OR RGSS2

 
These scripts you posted.. except by the tales battlesystem, nothing that we already don't have on ace. They're just eye candy but no great coding challenge.
 
The tales battlesystem is doable, why no one made it yet? Simple: it not worth the effort. How many complete games you ever saw using a tales of battle on XP? I never saw one. This system is to complex to use, so almost no one will effectively use. Also have you ever tested one of those tales system to feel how bad the game play with them is? They look good, but are horrible in terms of gameplay.
I could do it in a month or two, but... is it really worth a month?
At last in my case, when it comes to develop complex scripts they're either rpg maker 'staples' (such as animated battle) or is something i will use for myself.
 
The sideview is just a tweaked sideview we already have some available for Ace (VE - Animated Battle, Symphonia, Tankentai and others)
 
The menu is ugly, and there's a lot of picture based menus already avaiable, nothing special.
 
The battlesystem? Just look at Jet's Viewed Battle System. The one you posted just have a custom HUD wich isn't the pinacle of coding.
 
Just to compare XP to Ace coding efficiency i will tell you my case:
It took me about 6 month to develop my XP animated battle system.
It took me less than 1 month to develop my Ace animated battle system
And my ace battle system is FAR, FAR, FAR better than the XP one.
 

I want to know what other people think of the stuff we have for Ace at the moment, compared to XP/VX.
We have nice stuff, but doesn't seem as good as the old.

Sorry, but you're just impressed with the visual, more than with the coding.

"The old stuff" was never that good, it just had a better looking because people was more worried with good looking than efficiency.

An example are the battle systems, most of them had custom huds with flashy things.... but in the end they were basically the same scripts with different HUDs, now we actually have different battle systems.

Edited by Victor Sant

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If someone, anyone, dares convert my shitty Ar Tonelico script for Ace, I'll commit suicide by watching 300 episodes of Naruto in a row.

Why would you say that?

I thought it was a nice script.

 

You said this on your site.

 

Ar Tonelico Battle System

A battle system inspired from the first Ar Tonelico game on the PlayStation 2. I was supposed to upgrade it but finally, I won’t. May eventually be revived with Vx Ace or not, time will tell heh. If I end up brutally murdered, it means Skie Fortress read that.

 

Which means, with RGSS3, making a Song Magic option for Yanfly's Ace Battle Engine, and make it compatible with Symphony, Victor's Animated Battlers and my own animated battlers. Nothing more. It was a bad script I don't support anymore and is only available on my site so people won't bug me with it.

 

I agree with Victor's post as well.

Edited by Kread-EX

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Not sure if I can add anything worth adding. What's been said is said, and by two very proficient scripters.

 

Asking someone to code something is like asking an artist to draw you a nice picture or collage.  It's up to them to decide if it's worth doing.

 

Scripting takes time too. Because of that we may not see the number of resources available on XP. However, over time a lot of scripters will (And already have) moved to RGSS3.

 

Conversion is messy work, to the point where it may be better just to rewrite a whole script.

 

Infact many coders do not like to go over their old work. It's like looking at your art from a couple years ago.

 

The words "Not gonna happen" are common in Script Requests forums, especially when the request is a battle system (And it usually is).

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It's not so much that it's impossible as it is that somebody has to convert the scripts. Many of the original scripters have moved on to other things, and not enough of the current and new scripters wish to take on the task of converting, especially if there are already similar scripts available. Plus, there is also the possibility that some scripters don't want their old scripts converted, which is within their rights.

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I'm not sure if anyone has really noticed it yet but, there is Falcao Pearl ABS Liquid v2 out now. To me, that is pretty cool. I have very little knowledge of scripting/coding but, (I'm trying to learn a little here and there as I look at peoples scripts) it seems like a very good battle system. Also it is way easier to implement than the other ABS's out there. Props to Falcao!! :D

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it's not because the rgss3 is terrible... it's because no one WANT to create them... YET...

 

some solution...

if you really wanted those system like the one in xp. just ask any great scripter in this forum for commission.

the problem why those xp 'great' system haven't shown... the scripter here mostly work for free.

 

so asking to waste their one month(or maybe more) time for ONLY your personal profit while they don't gain anything and don't enjoy it... it's like a rip off to them.

 

so... if you manage to reward them with sufficient monetary reward. you could get what you want from xp system you listed above.

i'm 1000000% sure ALL those script in xp could be rewritten in ace and have better feature, more flashy, etc.

 

some example is commission work from tammsyn to victor (FF7 Materia system) which he generously share it for public use

see?..... :D

 

if you don't want commission work... just use available script, combine them, modify them, or make your own original script. :D. or pray someday some good generous scripter will tackle the script for free :D.

Edited by estriole

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I've seen many people ask question about getting scripts that were made on XP for Ace, and most/some of the replies are usually,

It's impossible or Won't happen

If someone doesn't find the script interesting they probably wouldn't spend the time to do it. Thus, won't happen.

 

If the script is "too long", it may also discourage people from spending the time to look into it. I wouldn't spend time to understand a 500-line script unless I really wanted to learn something new or look at how others solved the same problem.

 

It all boils down to whether someone's willing to do it or not.

 

But aside from motivation...

 

Some ideas are just really complex. Like, even if you looked at the code you would not understand what the heck is going on, because there is just too much specialized knowledge mixed in (eg: networking protocols)

 

Some things are not obvious how they might be done (making dll calls, etc), so usually until a library of sorts is written people aren't going to spend the time to look into it themselves. I definitely prefer to call a function that gives me the position of the mouse cursor relative to the window, rather than writing the function myself.

Edited by Tsukihime

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A lot of times, I think the "won't happen" kind of responses, directly follow scripting requests for very large, complex systems, namely battle systems.  (Though multiplayer and online engines are also up there)

 

Any system that large and complex wasn't written overnight.  Even if it were only a few days/weeks of effort overall to put together--I don't care to estimate actual manhours-- it almost certainly happened over the course of several revisions/versions over several months or longer.  It's also worth pointing out that most were probably developed because the developer wanted to create such a system... not simply in response to a request in a forum.

 

In other words, the "won't happen" response really should be taken to mean "won't happen in any kind of useful timeline to fulfill this particular request, unless someone already happens to have one almost done".

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RGSS3 is only an improvement upon it's predecessors. When people say something is impossible, they probably don't completely mean it's impossible. After all, I'm of the opinion that nothings impossible (unless it's like uber-ridiculous). As Victor Sant already said, each advance on the RGSS language is an improvement in efficiency. You can pop out the same thing in far less time because they make it that way.

 

Just because the technology has improved doesn't mean that all of a sudden people are going to be making the same scripts as before. Some people may have just lost interest in those ideas and concepts. The same scripters don't want to rescript old features.

 

Just remember, it's not the technology as much as it is the people.

 

After all, saying RGSS3 is terrible is doing it a great injustice. We are getting a ridiculous number of scripts in a very short amount of time. We already have tons of features for improvements and tons of features that we didn't even think we needed. So we should appreciate what we do have instead of mourning what we don't. Ace has been out for what, a year? How long did it take to get the same number of scripts on VX or XP? The answer is probably a lot longer. Both because of the scripters and their hard work, and because of Enterbrain and their constant improvement with each iteration on previous technology.

 

Although, Ace was probably the smallest step forward in the series so far in my opinion. Now the next RPG Maker just better have layers, ;)

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Ace was perhaps the smallest step forward in terms of the RTP (even 2K3 featured an all new battle system compared to 2K) and capability (VX scripts can do nearly all that Ace can) but it probably has the most added by default, which isn't always a bad thing for non-scripters and new developers.

 

Even simple plug n scripts can create a large amount of headaches if they clash with other settings, so I really like having some of the features by default (and the Shadow Pen is probably one of the most useful tools yet).

 

However, I do think they could have done a lot more, and held off on some of those ideas for a reason to do another maker down the road. Only time will tell.

 

But back on topic, what everybody else has said is the primary reason. Some scripts are just archaic now, or have been done better by others. And some scripts just need to be requested for conversion with the hope somebody does it.

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Although, Ace was probably the smallest step forward in the series so far in my opinion. Now the next RPG Maker just better have layers, ;)

I wouldn't mind if the next RM was just Ace + layers.

And maybe some better tileset management.

 

Can't really think of anything that I've used in Ace that could be better. The features and effects were definitely useful compared to VX and while it seems like a small thing for game developers that just have to get used to dropdown boxes rather than checkboxes, it is a major change in design for scripters.

 

A lot of things have become standardized, for example instead of treating HP and MP as two completely separate things you realize that they are just parameters and can just call it param 0 and param 1. Atk? That's just param 2.

 

All this means is that it is more extensible and leads to less redundant code that just makes a script look long for no reason.

Edited by Tsukihime

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Thanks for pointing out an example of differences, Tsuki. I personally never scripted in XP (and had a hiatus during the VX vanilla period.) I haven't started scripting yet but I look at code to make small changes, and the param thing makes so much sense to me that I can't imagine it any other way. For example I just started using NASTY Extra Stats to create my own custom stats, and easily incorporated them into Yanfly's Status Screen. I cannot imagine the nightmare that would have been had I been using RGSS2.

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